Sen. Kerry calls for filibuster of Alito

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm not a closet Dem and never was. When I was a member of that party, I didn't keep it a secret. When I left that party after the last election, I didn't keep it a secret, either.

The Democratic party you remember is long gone, unfortunately. That is my opinion. It is no longer a party that fights for the working-class, it is a party that puts big business above all else and only when big business is appeased will the lowly proletarians get a few crumbs tossed their way. Are those crumbs bigger than anything tossed by the Republican party? Yes. But they are not enough for me to be complicit in what I see as the constant raping of the American public. They need to offer action, not inaction. They need to offer change, not stagnation. They need to offer a genuine sense of care and empathy, not an emotion-triggering talking point that offends in it's sterility.

I realize that people think voting for Green candidates or Independent candidates is akin to wasting your vote, and I'm fine with that. I stopped seeing a difference between the two parties in our current system quite a while back and I'm now perfectly content to vote for what I think is right, not for who might win. If the Democrats cannot offer me anything much different than the Republicans, I feel as if voting for them will be wasting my votes. At least now I can sleep better at night knowing that I didn't sell myself out.

I can certainly see your point, and even agree with you to a point--that point being: you gave up, I didnt. Who's to say who is right or wrong? I dont know. We all have to go with what our conscience dictates. Is the American Public being shortchanged? Most Definitely. Are the Dems responsible? partly. But for me to turn my back would be to compound the problem, not solve it. I dont think breaking away solves anything anymore. The world is just too small now, there is no New World for anyone to conquer or inhabit or explore. We only have the World we know, as imperfect as it actually is.
And, contrary to your statement, I dont think Im selling myself out. I may not be happy with every thing my party is doing but I never liked everything my mom and dad did either! I dont have all the answers, and I guess I just have to have faith that the system will find the middle ground somehow...

thats not to say that we dont need the muckrakers like yourself Diss...because we DO. You keep us all honest. at least those of us who give a damn......

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I can certainly see your point, and even agree with you to a point--that point being: you gave up, I didnt.

I did not give up. I realized that there was a bigger, better and more important party out there to devote my time to than the Democratic party.

Who's to say who is right or wrong? I dont know. We all have to go with what our conscience dictates. Is the American Public being shortchanged? Most Definitely. Are the Dems responsible? partly. But for me to turn my back would be to compound the problem, not solve it. I dont think breaking away solves anything anymore.

I don't think staying solves anything, either. To me, Democratic voters have become akin to the Log Cabin Republicans in a way. They vote for the representatives that they're supposed to vote for, as dictated by party affiliation, but those representatives don't represent them. How is staying and continuing to support those elected officials accomplishing anything?

The world is just too small now, there is no New World for anyone to conquer or inhabit or explore. We only have the World we know, as imperfect as it actually is.

That is patently untrue.

And, contrary to your statement, I dont think Im selling myself out.

I was referring to myself and my years of voting for idiot Democrats. Ted Kennedy not included, mind you.

I may not be happy with every thing my party is doing but I never liked everything my mom and dad did either! I dont have all the answers, and I guess I just have to have faith that the system will find the middle ground somehow...

But if there's a party out there that is truer to your convictions and principles than the Democratic party is, why not entertain the idea of joining them? That's what I don't understand.

thats not to say that we dont need the muckrakers like yourself Diss...because we DO. You keep us all honest. at least those of us who give a damn......

People like me do not keep the Democratic party honest. Even when I was a Dem, I was one of the fringe Dems that they liked to distance themselves from as much as possible while gladly taking my money and spouting bull**** promises to appease me, only to sell me and people like me out the next day when they thought they could get a moderate vote. They take people like you and I for granted, Mary. They know it and they don't care.

[irishgrl]

I did not give up. I realized that there was a bigger, better and more important party out there to devote my time to than the Democratic party

Really? and what have you accomplished with your new party?

I don't think staying solves anything, either. To me, Democratic voters have become akin to the Log Cabin Republicans in a way. They vote for the representatives that they're supposed to vote for, as dictated by party affiliation, but those representatives don't represent them. How is staying and continuing to support those elected officials accomplishing anything?

I dont vote for anyone I dont want to vote for. There are still plenty of good Dems to vote for, contrary to your view.

That is patently untrue.

(really? why?)

I was referring to myself and my years of voting for idiot Democrats. Ted Kennedy not included, mind you.

Well then. Since you have the shining Dem example of Ted Kennedy right in front of you (who gives a **** about Chappaquiddick (sp?)) why are you so disillusioned?

But if there's a party out there that is truer to your convictions and principles than the Democratic party is, why not entertain the idea of joining them? That's what I don't understand. *I havent yet made the leap that the Dem Party doesnt represent me*

People like me do not keep the Democratic party honest. Even when I was a Dem, I was one of the fringe Dems that they liked to distance themselves from as much as possible while gladly taking my money and spouting bull**** promises to appease me, only to sell me and people like me out the next day when they thought they could get a moderate vote. They take people like you and I for granted, Mary. They know it and they don't care.

OH MY GOSH, thats incredibly disgusting...no wonder you are shed of the DEM party if thats how you were treated....if they cant stand a little self examination, then they are no better than the dark side. I dont blame you for defecting if that was your experience. That hasnt been MY experience however. Im still a UNION member, Still a DIE HARD DEM, Still in favor of all the social programs, educational programs, equal opportunity programs that I remember when I was a kid. I cant help it Diss.........Im a product of my generation whether I like it or not. my brother went off to fight in Viet Nam. we worried about ever seeing him again........until Iraq, this country hasnt actually had to fight a true war.

I hope you'll reserve final judgement for the end times.

[Rickypt]

Update:

Feinstein has come out in favor of the filibuster.

Cindy Sheehan has announced she might run against Feinstein this year.

Small but energetic protest in the rain against Hillary last night.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Update:

Feinstein has come out in favor of the filibuster.

Aha. She must have realized that her recent statements about not supporting a filibuster didn't go over too well amongst her voters.

Cindy Sheehan has announced she might run against Feinstein this year.

That's one campaign I'll donate mightily to.

Small but energetic protest in the rain against Hillary last night.

Awesome!

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm not a closet Dem and never was. When I was a member of that party, I didn't keep it a secret. When I left that party after the last election, I didn't keep it a secret, either.

The Democratic party you remember is long gone, unfortunately. That is my opinion. It is no longer a party that fights for the working-class, it is a party that puts big business above all else and only when big business is appeased will the lowly proletarians get a few crumbs tossed their way. Are those crumbs bigger than anything tossed by the Republican party? Yes. But they are not enough for me to be complicit in what I see as the constant raping of the American public. They need to offer action, not inaction. They need to offer change, not stagnation. They need to offer a genuine sense of care and empathy, not an emotion-triggering talking point that offends in it's sterility.

I realize that people think voting for Green candidates or Independent candidates is akin to wasting your vote, and I'm fine with that. I stopped seeing a difference between the two parties in our current system quite a while back and I'm now perfectly content to vote for what I think is right, not for who might win. If the Democrats cannot offer me anything much different than the Republicans, I feel as if voting for them will be wasting my votes. At least now I can sleep better at night knowing that I didn't sell myself out.

Hurray! Nice post.

"Greens - the real Democrats"

[SuzeQuze]

According to Rachel Maddow we got 12 more votes for the filibuster over the weekend. She says the switchboard to call your senators is 888-ELK-FLUTE. Silly but memorable I suppose. Call your senators to support their choice to filibuster or try to change their minds. We are only 2 votes away from a successful filibuster. The vote is today at about 4:00.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

According to Rachel Maddow we got 12 more votes for the filibuster over the weekend. She says the switchboard to call your senators is 888-ELK-FLUTE. Silly but memorable I suppose. Call your senators to support their choice to filibuster or try to change their minds. We are only 2 votes away from a successful filibuster. The vote is today at about 4:00.

Are you sure? These are the only ones supporting a filibuster:

Barbara Boxer (D- CA)
Dianne Feinstein (D- CA)
Christopher J. Dodd (D- CT)
Richard J. Durbin (D- IL)
Barack Obama (D- IL)
John F. Kerry (D- MA)
Edward M. Kennedy (D- MA)
Paul S. Sarbanes (D- MD)
Debbie A. Stabenow (D- MI)
Harry Reid (D- NV)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (D- NY)
Charles Schumer (D- NY)
Ron Wyden (D- OR)
Jack Reed (D- RI)
Patrick J. Leahy (D- VT)
Russell D. Feingold (D- WI)
Tom Harkin (D- IA)

That's 18.

http://www.democrats.com/alito-48

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

Are you sure? These are the only ones supporting a filibuster:

Barbara Boxer (D- CA)
Dianne Feinstein (D- CA)
Christopher J. Dodd (D- CT)
Richard J. Durbin (D- IL)
Barack Obama (D- IL)
John F. Kerry (D- MA)
Edward M. Kennedy (D- MA)
Paul S. Sarbanes (D- MD)
Debbie A. Stabenow (D- MI)
Harry Reid (D- NV)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (D- NY)
Charles Schumer (D- NY)
Ron Wyden (D- OR)
Jack Reed (D- RI)
Patrick J. Leahy (D- VT)
Russell D. Feingold (D- WI)
Tom Harkin (D- IA)

That's 18.

http://www.democrats.com/alito-48

Nope, just going by what Maddow said. She said that's what the data showed.

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm not a closet Dem and never was. When I was a member of that party, I didn't keep it a secret. When I left that party after the last election, I didn't keep it a secret, either.

The Democratic party you remember is long gone, unfortunately. That is my opinion. It is no longer a party that fights for the working-class, it is a party that puts big business above all else and only when big business is appeased will the lowly proletarians get a few crumbs tossed their way. Are those crumbs bigger than anything tossed by the Republican party? Yes. But they are not enough for me to be complicit in what I see as the constant raping of the American public. They need to offer action, not inaction. They need to offer change, not stagnation. They need to offer a genuine sense of care and empathy, not an emotion-triggering talking point that offends in it's sterility.

I realize that people think voting for Green candidates or Independent candidates is akin to wasting your vote, and I'm fine with that. I stopped seeing a difference between the two parties in our current system quite a while back and I'm now perfectly content to vote for what I think is right, not for who might win. If the Democrats cannot offer me anything much different than the Republicans, I feel as if voting for them will be wasting my votes. At least now I can sleep better at night knowing that I didn't sell myself out.

This country needs more people like you that still give a damn.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Nope, just going by what Maddow said. She said that's what the data showed.

Now Chaffee's going to vote no on Alito!!! Harkin isn't even going to vote.

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by dissention

Now Chaffee's going to vote no on Alito!!! Harkin isn't even going to vote.

God does Harkin look old these days btw...

[dissention]

Originally Posted by DavidMn

God does Harkin look old these days btw...

Fukc him. How can he abstain from voting? What a weasel.

The Gang of 14 is meeting this afternoon to block a filibuster attempt. Democrats in the Gang of 14:

Joseph I. Lieberman, Connecticut
Robert C. Byrd, West Virginia
E. Benjamin Nelson, Nebraska
Mary Landrieu, Louisiana
Daniel Inouye, Hawaii
Mark Pryor, Arkansas
Ken Salazar, Colorado

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

To say that the Dems on the House Intelligence Committee were "complicit" for not telling what they knew is to engage in a bit of generalizing. How many Dems were ON that Committee? And do we know who leaked the story to the NYT? Was it a Dem? possibly there is some redemption possible for the Dem party after all. Granted, they deserve much of your scorn, but to paint them with the same black brush as the Rethugs is just unreasonable. It wasnt a Dem Administration that perpetrated this glaring detour around the law, it was the NeoCon Rethugs. With Dumbya at the Helm.

The Dems cant hold a CANDLE to the shenanigans of the GOP. nossir.

Excellent, and I concur

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by dissention

Fukc him. How can he abstain from voting? What a weasel.

The Gang of 14 is meeting this afternoon to block a filibuster attempt. Democrats in the Gang of 14:

Joseph I. Lieberman, Connecticut
Robert C. Byrd, West Virginia
E. Benjamin Nelson, Nebraska
Mary Landrieu, Louisiana
Daniel Inouye, Hawaii
Mark Pryor, Arkansas
Ken Salazar, Colorado

So in your expert opinion, what do you see the final vote total being?