Stevie, '75 vs. '77

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by markolas

Lita Ford?? You guys have some ****ty taste in music.

who's "you guys?" I think it was only David .

[markolas]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

who's "you guys?" I think it was only David .

Well, I don't really get Pat Benatar, either, but then again, I think I'm the only Ledgie who doesn't really listen to all this hard rock stuff.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

It was tacky .strident and had absolutely nothing organic about it .

Oh, it was totally calculated, kind of like Stevie's persona. Homegirl went from a shag haircut & flair jeans to chiffon & top hats in a matter of months. Organic is not what I'd call it. Calculated is. It was the schtick she adopted, though it was much, much more interesting than Pat's. Back then, she would give interviews where she spoke about the persona she adopts onstage actually being the way she is in real life. More recently, she's admitted to it being all an act. Looking at how her career progressed over the years, one can see just how heavily she pushed it all as the years wore on. Whereas she wrote beautiful songs about dreams and Welsh witches early on, she eventually descended into babbling about "the moon and her sisters" & any old thing that would play up her image, no matter how silly and over the top it was.

Bring on the onslaught of fierce disagreement, I'm ready.

[David]

Originally Posted by sparky

Everyone knew she was an out of control drug addict, who was turning in messy performances left and right all over the country.

You're exaggerating by a country mile, spark.

Pat, on the other hand, was a consummate professional, with the strange patina of operatic training to back her up.

I have never doubted her professionalism. As for her much-touted operatic training (one of her initial marketing points), I wouldn't doubt that, either. But I've been listening to opera singers my whole life, & I find nothing of the opera in Pat's vocal style--except in the most overtly negative sense of the term "operatic": shrieking harpies & Screeching Mimis. All in all, Pat was a pretty pedestrian tough cookie persona with "gutsy" vocals & songs whose only effect on rock history & life was a commercial effect, a pop culture Five-Year Plan.

The other thing is, I am certainly not counterbalancing Stevie with Pat Benatar. My original contradistinction was with a certain thread in Fleetwood Mac's style that was an identifiable & deliberate attempt to avoid ubiquitous approaches to pop--both in the studio & onstage. So I want to let my inverse parallel stand, but it has nothing to do with Stevie Nicks as a soloist (who was closer to Pat Benatar in terms of approach than to Fleetwood Mac at its bravest).

I'm sorry, guys. Never liked Benatar. Please don't kill me!!

EDIT: Oops. I do want to add that in all the interviews I've seen of Pat, she comes across as very intelligent, mature & gracious. In short, a nice gal.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

I'm sorry, guys. Never liked Benatar. Please don't kill me!!

You'll have to plead better than that. I'm just itching to stone you over it.

Pat's nothing truly special, I just think her songs are fun and she's got a great voice to my ears. I'm sure if I grew up hearing and seeing her in her heyday, I might have a different view on her, but as it stands, I find listening to her once in awhile to be quite satisfying.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

EDIT: Oops. I do want to add that in all the interviews I've seen of Pat, she comes across as very intelligent, mature & gracious. In short, a nice gal.

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.

[David]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

who's "you guys?" I think it was only David .

I never said or implied Lita Ford was any better with her music than Pat Benatar was with hers (I don't think either one of them created anything of artistic value). My point was that, back in 1980, Lita Ford was widely considered a more authentic tough rock chick with a REAL edge than Benatar was.

What does any of that have to do with musical taste? Come on, you guys. If people are going to respond to other posts, they should read them with at least some care.

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.

Really? How awful. This is the girl who went on the '94/'95 Fleetwood Mac tour for a time, right? the girl who John McVie said used to practice singing Rhiannon at a makeshift mic.

Or am I thinking of Molly?

[David]

Originally Posted by chiliD

LITA FORD?!?!?! Oh, jeez, David, I can't believe you compared Pat Benatar to an ex-Runaway. Who you going to compare Ann Wilson with? Joan Jett?!?!

No self-respecting rock fan in 1980 thought much of Pat Benatar, whereas quite a few of them were fans of Lita Ford, Chrissie Hynde & Patti Smith (ladies who, incidentally, all outhailed Ann Wilson, as well). All you have to do is read Lester Bangs, Robert Christgau & Greil Marcus.

[David]

Originally Posted by elie

When I listen to her current live recordings, I sometimes unintentionally think of Marianne Faithfull.

That's interesting because one of the short magazine reviews of the 1983 "Fleetwood Mac In Concert" video compared Stevie to Marianne Faithfull in terms of ragged intensity & let-fly emotionalism.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

No self-respecting rock fan in 1980 thought much of Pat Benatar, whereas quite a few of them were fans of Lita Ford, Chrissie Hynde & Patti Smith (ladies who, incidentally, all outhailed Ann Wilson, as well). All you have to do is read Lester Bangs, Robert Christgau & Greil Marcus.

Bangs' book on Blondie is one of my most treasured possessions. What a howler that schizophrenic read is.

[David]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

I had good seats at the San Diego Sports Arena in December of 1981 that I had waited up all night to buy for the very brief White Winged Dove tour and she cancelled the show.

It's amazing that here was a scheduled concert, practically in my backyard, which I knew nothing about at the time. Given that, I'm glad she canceled. I saw the shows in L.A. & the show in Oakland, & if this San Diego gig had happened, I would be seriously annoyed today.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

In short, a nice gal.

Now you're baggin' on her height?!?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by dissention

That may be true, but I question her parenting skills after seeing her twat of a daughter on the telly recently, whoring herself out on a reality show for the E! network as one of a group of assorted rich kids; acting like the kind of brats you'd want to put over your knee and leave red welts on their bums.

She was indeed annoying, as are nearly all reality people. I always thought Pat and Neil seemed like a great couple and good parents, though, taking their daughter on the road with them and only doing summer tours so they could have a relatively normal life during the school year.

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

Pat's nothing truly special, I just think her songs are fun and she's got a great voice to my ears. I'm sure if I grew up hearing and seeing her in her heyday, I might have a different view on her, but as it stands, I find listening to her once in awhile to be quite satisfying.

Well, on the other hand, I haven't listened to Benatar in fifteen or twenty years--when I saw Fleetwood in '94 & '95 in Konocti, they didn't co-bill with Benatar or REO.

So maybe (& I do mean maybe) if I listened to some Benatar today, I might get a kick out of it. I'd certainly prefer it to today's rapping & hip-hopping.