Stevie, '75 vs. '77

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

er...I said "that's why I love her" and "that's what her voice reminds me of - I love it".

So what gave you that idea, Lou?

It is something I read between Mark's lines, Frank.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

It is something I read between Mark's lines, Frank.

You're brill, I swear.

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

I love Pat. That little thing has a marvelous voice.

I hate her, Diss, I really do. She was the epitome of the watered-down corporate cock rock chick (watered down because she was no Lita Ford) of the early '80s whose music was machine-tooled & vapid & formulaic. Benatar music was the kind of stuff that Buckingham tried (but later failed) to subvert with his solo albums. I don't think there's a single prominent member of the rock press from, say, 1979 to 1983 who ever gave one of her albums or one of her tracks a good review.

Bear in mind, Diss, that I heard Benatar at the time of her greatest commercial success, so I didn't respond to the rejuvenating nostalgia factor that may have rescued her reputation years later.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by David

I hate her, Diss, I really do. She was the epitome of the watered-down corporate cock rock chick (watered down because she was no Lita Ford) of the early '80s whose music was machine-tooled & vapid & formulaic. Benatar music was the kind of stuff that Buckingham tried (but later failed) to subvert with his solo albums. I don't think there's a single prominent member of the rock press from, say, 1979 to 1983 who ever gave one of her albums or one of her tracks a good review.

Bear in mind, Diss, that I heard Benatar at the time of her greatest commercial success, so I didn't respond to the rejuvenating nostalgia factor that may have rescued her reputation years later.

Yep everything he said .I was the right (or maybe the wrong ) age at the time of the peak of Benatar's popularity to be deluged with her image then .It was tacky .strident and had absolutely nothing organic about it .I was still young enough then to be a blindly loyal Nicksian devotee and frankly in the early 1980s it was still easy to think that Nicks could do no wrong musically because at that point she really hadn't.I remember being sickened when at one of those American music awards shows Pat beat Stevie out for an award .silly now I know but I thought she was undeserving of it and her Grammys ,just the aural equivalent of nails on the chalkboard.

[amber]

She still has a really good voice. I'm glad I'm younger, otherwise I might have missed out on liking Pat B. Luckily, I never saw her image or anything, only heard the songs and liked them. Of course Stevie should still have won. Pat isn't that good.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Yep everything he said .I was the right (or maybe the wrong ) age at the time of the peak of Benatar's popularity to be deluged with her image then .It was tacky .strident and had absolutely nothing organic about it .I was still young enough then to be a blindly loyal Nicksian devotee and frankly in the early 1980s it was still easy to think that Nicks could do no wrong musically because at that point she really hadn't. I remember being sickened when at one of those American music awards shows Pat beat Stevie out for an award .silly now I know but I thought she was undeserving of it and her Grammys ,just the aural equivalent of nails on the chalkboard.

I was the same age too, and at the time I was really pissed that Pat won awards over Stevie. Nonetheless, I was a huge Pat fan as well. It goes without saying that Pat's image, which was based on bitch goddesses straight out of 1950's comic books, was a little annoying. Evidently, it was less annoying to critics and voters of those bodies than Stevie's image, which was that of an airhead, wanna be witch straight out of a fairy tale.
At the time, many people thought Stevie was just an act, and certainly members of the recording industry, who no doubt knew about how instrumental Lindsey and others had been in the creation of her songs, thought she was a hack with good collaborators. Technically, Benatar's voice was a wonder, in studio and live. Her reputation as a singer at the time was unrivaled, whereas Stevie was cancelling concerts due to intoxication, and turning in performances that were at times incoherent and humiliating to any sober witness to them. Let us not forget that as early as the White Winged Dove tour, she was dropping keys, dodging high notes, and coked out of her gourd. The same cannot be said of Pat Benatar. Music industry insiders knew of what was going on at the beginning of this long decline way before us fans knew anything. LA is a very small town, folks.

As I look back, I think Stevie should have won a grammy for Edge of 17, in spite of the overwhelming presence of backup singers. Nonetheless, I think she had done herself in among industry insiders. Everyone knew she was an out of control drug addict, who was turning in messy performances left and right all over the country. Pat, on the other hand, was a consummate professional, with the strange patina of operatic training to back her up.

[elie]

Hi! As I have already said in another thread, I have never had the chance to see Stevie performing in the early days because it is simply impossible to get this kind of footage here and I don't know my way around the internet very well. I downloaded a short GDW clip from an 1979 tour (I think) but the quality was not very good and I could not hear and see very clearly. As far as the 77 -today comparison goes, I would say that I like Stevie now, but it is just different. And I would be extremely surprised if her voice sounded the same as 30 years ago - now that would be spooky. When I listen to her current live recordings, I sometimes unintentionally think of Marianne Faithfull. The voice-destruction from the 60's to today is similar (darker, hoarse voice).

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Any use of any substances including weed and alcohol would not be considered clean and sober.

I was having similar thoughts the other day. I don't have personal experiences with drugs, but when I hear that a certain rock singer (like Stevie) is clean and sober today, I have my doubts about what this actually means. I might be wrong about that, but how can someone who has openly used hard drugs for so long, and what's more, as a way to gain more confidence on stage (correct me if I am wrong -I have read that one of the reasons Stevie started to use coke is that she had stage fright) stay away from drugs completely?? My understanding is that - at least in some cases and I have no clue if that's the case here- the drug use goes on, it is just more moderate when they grow older/and have gone into rehab/ and realised that they cannot go on using as much as they used to.

Sorry for the long post !

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by sparky

I was the same age too, and at the time I was really pissed that Pat won awards over Stevie. Nonetheless, I was a huge Pat fan as well. It goes without saying that Pat's image, which was based on bitch goddesses straight out of 1950's comic books, was a little annoying. Evidently, it was less annoying to critics and voters of those bodies than Stevie's image, which was that of an airhead, wanna be witch straight out of a fairy tale.
At the time, many people thought Stevie was just an act, and certainly members of the recording industry, who no doubt knew about how instrumental Lindsey and others had been in the creation of her songs, thought she was a hack with good collaborators. Technically, Benatar's voice was a wonder, in studio and live. Her reputation as a singer at the time was unrivaled, whereas Stevie was cancelling concerts due to intoxication, and turning in performances that were at times incoherent and humiliating to any sober witness to them. Let us not forget that as early as the White Winged Dove tour, she was dropping keys, dodging high notes, and coked out of her gourd. The same cannot be said of Pat Benatar. Music industry insiders knew of what was going on at the beginning of this long decline way before us fans knew anything. LA is a very small town, folks.

As I look back, I think Stevie should have won a grammy for Edge of 17, in spite of the overwhelming presence of backup singers. Nonetheless, I think she had done herself in among industry insiders. Everyone knew she was an out of control drug addict, who was turning in messy performances left and right all over the country. Pat, on the other hand, was a consummate professional, with the strange patina of operatic training to back her up.

Actually alot of us hardcore fans were clued into Stevie's hedonistic ways and flaky concert cancelling antics even then .I had good seats at the San Diego Sports Arena in December of 1981 that I had waited up all night to buy for the very brief White Winged Dove tour and she cancelled the show .The woman at the Head shop were I bought the tickets said it was because she was 'too coked out ' and I had no problem believing it.However in the studio Stevie's work had been quite prisitine up to this point and that is what I was referring to as 'musically.In a few years that would all change too. Sure Pat was professional but I wanted to be in love with a real Rock Star and that Stevie was beyond a shadow of a doubt.Sure some of my animosity toward Pat was because I worshipped La Nicks and Pat was her main competition then but it was also that her image was annoying in general .I had no problem enjoying Heart and Ronstadt a few years earlier while idolizing Nicks. There isn't much I wouldn't give now to see one of those sloppy coke fueled performances again .I treasure the memories of the ones I did see.It is interesting to see whom history has acquitted though. I would have to say at this point in time and for the last decade or so that Stevie's legacy looms far above Pat's

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Actually alot of us hardcore fans were clued into Stevie's hedonistic ways and flaky concert cancelling antics even then .I had good seats at the San Diego Sports Arena in December of 1981 that I had waited up all night to buy for the very brief White Winged Dove tour and she cancelled the show .The woman at the Head shop were I bought the tickets said it was because she was 'too coked out ' and I had no problem believing it.However in the studio Stevie's work had been quite prisitine up to this point and that is what I was referring to as 'musically.In a few years that would all change too. Sure Pat was professional but I wanted to be in love with a real Rock Star and that Stevie was beyond a shadow of a doubt.Sure some of my animosity toward Pat was because I worshipped La Nicks and Pat was her main competition then but it was also that her image was annoying in general .I had no problem enjoying Heart and Ronstadt a few years earlier while idolizing Nicks. There isn't much I wouldn't give now to see one of those sloppy coke fueled performances again .I treasure the memories of the ones I did see.It is interesting to see whom history has acquitted though. I would have to say at this point in time and for the last decade or so that Stevie's legacy looms far above Pat's

I completely agree!!!!!!!

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by GODDESS6

aaahhhh someone elso who loves pat, i thinks she is great & has a phenomenal voice~

Me too. I hated the whole Love is a Battlefield thing, but Hell is for Children, You Better Run, Shadow of the Night, Promises in the Dark, etc...in-credible. I could go on and on. I don't think she's nearly as interesting as Stevie, and her persona never really did much for me. But I was a teenager when I got interested in Pat Benatar, and her voice blew me away. She was quite enthuiastic on stage, too. My brother-in-law was at a concert where she passed out. She was all over the damn place!

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by jannieC

Me too. I hated the whole Love is a Battlefield thing, but Hell is for Children, You Better Run, Shadow of the Night, Promises in the Dark, etc...in-credible.

Yes, and Wuthering Heights, We Live For Live, Heartbreaker for me.

My mom wouldn't let me see Pat in concert because she thought Pat was a "tart". I would've loved to have seen her in her heyday.

Still, she's nowhere Stevie or Ann Wilson in my opinion.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

I hate her, Diss, I really do. She was the epitome of the watered-down corporate cock rock chick (watered down because she was no Lita Ford) of the early '80s whose music was machine-tooled & vapid & formulaic. Benatar music was the kind of stuff that Buckingham tried (but later failed) to subvert with his solo albums. I don't think there's a single prominent member of the rock press from, say, 1979 to 1983 who ever gave one of her albums or one of her tracks a good review.

Bear in mind, Diss, that I heard Benatar at the time of her greatest commercial success, so I didn't respond to the rejuvenating nostalgia factor that may have rescued her reputation years later.

LITA FORD?!?!?! Oh, jeez, David, I can't believe you compared Pat Benatar to an ex-Runaway. Who you going to compare Ann Wilson with? Joan Jett?!?!

Time to pull back the curtains & let the sun in your apt, there boy.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by The Tower

It's the headbands and the cheezy music and the shimmying from the "Love is a Battlefield" video...

Love that video!

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by chiliD

LITA FORD?!?!?! Oh, jeez, David, I can't believe you compared Pat Benatar to an ex-Runaway. Who you going to compare Ann Wilson with? Joan Jett?!?!

Time to pull back the curtains & let the sun in your apt, there boy.

What he said, except ain't nothin' wrong with Joan Jett. She still I rocks, I saw her two years ago at SXSW and it was great.

Anyway, David, I'd say Pat Benatar has held up much better than Lita Ford. I only remember two songs by Lita: the Ozzy duet and Kiss Me Deadly. What else has she done (solo) and how can you EVEN compare her "career" to Pat's prolific catalogue??

Anyhoo, corporate or no corporate Pat rocks my socks off with that voice of hers. You know she's a trained operatic singer...and I think it shows in the power and intensity of her beautiful voice.

[markolas]

Lita Ford?? You guys have some ****ty taste in music.