Governor denies clemency for ex-gang leader - Page 9

tommer · #**121** 12-13-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Fair enough, but what do you say about the fact that a killer took the life of another? That isnt fair either is it?

of course it's not, yet an individual can choose to be unfair (and hopefully get punished for doing so), while a society or a state must not allow itself to become unfair. again, very simple.

DavidMn · #**122** 12-13-2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommer

of course it's not, yet an individual can choose to be unfair (and hopefully get punished for doing so), while a society or a state must not allow itself to become unfair. again, very simple.

You know, the more I think about the stuff that's going on in your part of the world, I can definitely respect where youre coming from.

The Tower · #**123** 12-13-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

If they brutally murdered someone? It would be hard, but I'd say yes. I dont know, I understand where you're coming from, but I just keep going back to the fact that whoever brutally kills someone is getting off if they dont have the same thing happen to them.

Being imprisoned for life, never having any freedom, and growing older and having to live with the irrevocable reality of one's actions is no day in the park.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**124** 12-13-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I don't know why I should expect you to understand that point.

Homer, buddy...they don't even know what a "point" is! Except for maybe the one at the top of their heads...

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**125** 12-13-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

Being imprisoned for life, never having any freedom, and growing older and having to live with the irrevocable reality of one's actions is no day in the park.

What makes you think that any of them care about their "actions"? If they had those feelings to being with, then they wouldn't even be in the situation they are in...period.

DavidMn · #**126** 12-13-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

Being imprisoned for life, never having any freedom, and growing older and having to live with the irrevocable reality of one's actions is no day in the park.

NO you're righ there. I need to do some more thinking on this subject I think.

GypsySorcerer · #**127** 12-13-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

I do agrewe with you in the sense I FIRMLY beiieve it should be applied fairly no matter how much money one has or the color of their skin.

But, we are incapable of applying it "fairly." We all have our own biases and prejudices, whether they are at the conscious level or not.

Murder is muder, and the death penalty is murder.

The Tower · #**128** 12-13-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

What makes you think that any of them care about their "actions"? If they had those feelings to being with, then they wouldn't even be in the situation they are in...period.

You have a lot of growing up to do.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**129** 12-13-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

You have a lot of growing up to do.

Gee...that's the response...seriously...that's it!?

tommer · #**130** 12-13-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

You know, the more I think about the stuff that's going on in your part of the world, I can definitely respect where youre coming from.

i can give you an easy example, terrorists who are responsible to the killing of civilians here, and are getting a long sentence in prison, are usually being demanded by the opposite side therefore freed in all sorts of political agreements, something the victims may find rather unfair. the alternative would be of course the death penalty, which is irreversible. despite my country's tendency to be unfair every now and then, this is too unacceptable.
death penalty does exist here, but in fact it exists in theory only, and under unimplemented military law, and even then, the law itself calls for an immediate mandatory appeal. only one person was sentenced to death in the history of the country, Adolf Eichmann, after being found guilty of crimes against humanity.

DavidMn · #**131** 12-13-2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Gee...that's the response...seriously...that's it!?

Brandon, chill out. He has a right to speak his mind. I see where you're coming from too, but going after someone just because they have a strong view isnt right either I think.

DavidMn · #**132** 12-13-2005, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommer

i can give you an easy example, terrorists who are responsible to the killing of civilians here, and are getting a long sentence in prison, are usually being demanded by the opposite side therefore freed in all sorts of political agreements, something the victims may find rather unfair. the alternative would be of course the death penalty, which is irreversible. despite my country's tendency to be unfair every now and then, this is too unacceptable.
death penalty does exist here, but in fact it exists in theory only, and under unimplemented military law, and even then, the law itself calls for an immediate mandatory appeal. only one person was sentenced to death in the history of the country, Adolf Eichmann, after being found guilty of crimes against humanity.

You know, seriously if I could wish for one thing right now, it would be that all the people in that part of the world could somehow see past their differences and get along. I know this is coming from someone who has never lived there, but here's hoping one day it happens.

The Tower · #**133** 12-13-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Gee...that's the response...seriously...that's it!?

Yep.

There's no point in me trying to explain my opinion to you when you don't even have an understanding of how people get to the point where they commit crimes and how it's not always so cut and dry. As people get older they tend to get wiser and they look back on the mistakes they have made and suffer because of it. It's called regret. Just because someone is an asshole and they may not regret their actions, they probably regret losing their life to prison. And that in itself is a hard punishment.

cliffdweller · #**134** 12-13-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

My point, that you fail to get in the analogy, IS, how many people must be killed, before the death penalty is considered just?

Oh I get your analogy...it's just that it's piss-poor and reactionary

You're discounting the huge number of deaths associated with the Holocaust when you so blithely compare Hitler's attrocities to what this guy did. Try again. This time, just don't use one of the most heinous acts of barbarism inflicted upon humanity in recorded history. It's too easy and requires very little thought on the subject.

But moreover, the point is, to murder someone (and government sanctioned no less) for committing murder is a gross contradiction and solves no problems. In fact, it perpetuates the acceptance of violence as a reasonable way of dealing with very complex and difficult societal ills and problems as well as contributing to an overall desensitization to violence in general. In short, noone wins. I can't imagine why one would want to live in a society that considers vengeance an appropriate response to trauma and tragedy. It only perpetuates trauma, how is that so hard to understand?

Jyqm · #**135** 12-13-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Fair enough, but what do you say about the fact that a killer took the life of another? That isnt fair either is it?

No, of course not. But the purpose of the rule of law is to impose some higher standards on ourselves and not just say, "Ah, well, you know, life's not fair, do what you gotta do."