Governor denies clemency for ex-gang leader - Page 6

dissention · #76 12-13-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

I'm sorry if I was in Albert Owens' step-mothers shoes, I would want to give him the shot myself.

Interestingly, Linda Owens, Albert Owens' widow, did not support Williams' execution.

The Tower · #77 12-13-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

I don't know if you know, but I'm 6 months pregnant with my first child. I would do anything to keep him safe. And the thought of something ever happening to him tears me apart. I pray that I'm never in that position one day, but God knows what I'd do for the justice of my child.
Brit

I hope for your sake that your child never ends up in any trouble. Stanley Williams had a mother and father.

gldstwmn · #78 12-13-2005, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

And instead of spending money to imprison thieves, we can actually turn a profit by taking their money!

They're already doing that.

snowman · #79 12-13-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

Um... actually China puts more people to death than we do. If you're going to make this sort of claim, you need to do your research.

Some quotes from the Amnesty International website (http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/worldwide.html)

The U.S. has executed over 800 people since 1976, and as of December 2002.

Between April and July 2001, at least 1,781 people were executed in a "strike hard" anti-crime campaign carried out by the Chinese government.

OK I need to do my research...so with all your facts, figures and quotes- what's your point??

sasja · #80 12-13-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

I don't know if you know, but I'm 6 months pregnant with my first child. I would do anything to keep him safe. And the thought of something ever happening to him tears me apart. I pray that I'm never in that position one day, but God knows what I'd do for the justice of my child.
Brit

I am new mom to my first child, who was born 14 weeks ago. I want him to live in a humane society, where an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is archaic, and caring and nurturing and weeding out violence is the order of the day.

I would never want to set him the example that vengeance is ever justified, no matter how hurt and upset we may feel.

Sasja

TwistedGypsy · #81 12-13-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

Stanley Williams had a mother and father.

You're breaking my heart.
Brit

TwistedGypsy · #82 12-13-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasja

I am new mom to my first child, who was born 14 weeks ago. I want him to live in a humane society, where an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is archaic, and caring and nurturing and weeding out violence is the order of the day.

I would never want to set him the example that vengeance is ever justified, no matter how hurt and upset we may feel.

Sasja

I would never want to do that either. Like I said I hope I'm never in that position, and I don't know exactly how I would react. But emotions do get in the way of clear thinking especially when it comes to your child. Thats probably what I should have said to begin with.
Congrats on your new son.
Brit

sasja · #83 12-13-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

You're breaking my heart.
Brit

Brit, I pray that you and your son never have to be in the position William's parents were.
Believe me when I say that NO ONE means for their child to be a murderer or violent acting out person, and that most if not all mothers feel the way you do towards their unborn or born child....

Congratulations on your pregnancy by the way!

Sasja

Jyqm · #84 12-13-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

But emotions do get in the way of clear thinking especially when it comes to your child.

I don't think anyone would argue with that. But again, that's why we have laws, and a justice system that is not based on the emotions of victims.

TwistedGypsy · #85 12-13-2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasja

Believe me when I say that NO ONE means for their child to be a murderer or violent acting out person

Sasja

I know that. Believe me when I say NO ONE wants their child forced face down on the concrete and shot in the back. It just seems to me that people are forgeting the victims here. I don't know if Williams' parents were alive when he was sent to jail, but atleast they got to see him. The Owens didn't get that chance. I'm for the victim and I don't see Williams as a victim.
Brit

HomerMcvie · #86 12-13-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Why don't you use a more fitting analogy? Tookie as Hitler? Hmmm...I don't think that's QUITE accurate but then again you were only trying to get a reactionary rise out of people

I guess I shouldn't expect anything less.

My point, that you fail to get in the analogy, IS, how many people must be killed, before the death penalty is considered just? It's a perfect analogy, considering the contention that multiple murders is still no reason to consider a death sentence.
I don't know why I should expect you to understand that point.

tommer · #87 12-13-2005, 01:32 PM

i'm so amused by this thread, it's like you're debating the pros and cons of slavery, freedom of religion or women's right to vote, it's so... i donnow... primitive?

The Tower · #88 12-13-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

I know that. Believe me when I say NO ONE wants their child forced face down on the concrete and shot in the back. It just seems to me that people are forgeting the victims here. I don't know if Williams' parents were alive when he was sent to jail, but atleast they got to see him. The Owens didn't get that chance. I'm for the victim and I don't see Williams as a victim.
Brit

You're missing the point. No one is saying that Williams is a victim. The point is that the death penalty is barbaric and is not justifiable punishment for crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

My point, that you fail to get in the analogy, IS, how many people must be killed, before the death penalty is considered just?

The death penalty is never just.

Rickypt · #89 12-13-2005, 01:41 PM

Being against the death penalty doesn't mean you don't care about the victims. Life in prison without parole is fitting sentence. The criminal loses the privilege of having a free life and society benefits with one less danger on the streets.

How does killing the criminal change any of that? It is vengeance, pure and simple. It might bring some peace or sense of justice to the victims' family, but that's not enough to justify state-sponsored killing, in my opinion. There needs to be a compelling public benefit for me to support the death penalty, and there isn't.

TwistedGypsy · #90 12-13-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

You're missing the point. No one is saying that Williams is a victim. The point is that the death penalty is barbaric and is not justifiable punishment for crime.

He really suffered didn't he?
Brit