Governor denies clemency for ex-gang leader

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by dissention

The "payment"? What "payment" is that? How lovely that we're calling actual human life "payment."

Oh get off your high horse...

I believe you were the one who just commented on how Ms. Coulter didn't "belong on Earth" over at sevenwonders...

While the sucker is getting what he deserves tonight...you can watch old TIVO'D Anderson Coopers... That should help make you feel better.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by dissention

The "payment"? What "payment" is that? How lovely that we're calling actual human life "payment."
It sends shivers down my spine to think that we're incapable of doing what Tookie Williams himself was incapable of doing: showing mercy. It's the ultimate hypocrisy.

What if it was your Mother that he murdered? Would you feel any different? I empathize with the victim's families.

So under your logic, had Hitler not committed suicide, he too, should have been given life in prison, right?

[Miss Vicky]

This is probably the only decision Ahnuld has made thusfar that hasn't pissed me off.

It's great that the man turned his life around and worked to make things better, but that doesn't change the fact that four people are dead because of him. No amount of good deeds could ever atone for that.

[sasja]

I'll just never be able to understand people that say how wrong it is for murderers to end a human life, and then support the ending of human life in the same breath.

Ban the death penalty, improve rehabilitation, and help foster a world in which violence and aggression are no longer necessary nor options.
Rather than ignore breeding-grounds for violence, help diffuse and prevent!
Love and nurturing will do humanity much more good than revenge, fear and punishment ever will...

Just my , sadly unpopular I find, opinion.

Sasja

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by sasja

Ban the death penalty, improve rehabilitation, and help foster a world in which violence and aggression are no longer necessary nor options.

Sounds awesome...



What a DREAM world.

[tynan88]

Yer I'm sorry...I can't find the logic in the death penalty, I am of the opinion that rehabilitation should be the aim of prison and that if someone can contribute effectively to society they should be able to...

Yes in my opinion that does include Hitler if he was ever able to do that...I just can not agree with the death penalty.

[sasja]

You know, brown eyes... Lots of "dreams" have been realized throughout human history. Dreams like flight, space exploration, vaccines to cure epedemic diseases.
The ending of Apartheid, the falling of the Berlin Wall, the emancipation of African Americans in this country was a huge, wonderful and realized "Dream"

We are very powerful movers, shakers and Realizers-of-Dreams, we humans.
I am glad. It's what makes us all so special and cherished

I am dreaming daily, and working hard as well.

Sasja

[dissention]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

What if it was your Mother that he murdered? Would you feel any different? I empathize with the victim's families.

Thanks for proving my point that the death penalty is nothing but government-sanctioned revenge. It has not a thing to do with actual "justice."

So under your logic, had Hitler not committed suicide, he too, should have been given life in prison, right?

Most definitely.

[sasja]

~agrees with Dissention on both counts~

Sasja

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by sasja

~agrees with Dissention on both counts~

Sasja

Me too.

I'm actually pretty conservative about jail sentences. For example, I think in most cases that child molesters should be locked up for life.

I just think the death penalty is repugnant and provides no justice. Locking murderers up with no chance for parole does "weed" them from society. If the issue is that it's our tax money paying for their incarceration, I'd rather mine pay for that instead of killing in my name.

[estranged4life]

get life in prison so they will have to interact with the general population (Death penalty cons are guarded and secure from the general population) and have to worry if someone will shove a shive/shank into their body on a daily/nightly basis....Ask good ol' Jeffery Daumer, oops...he got shanked, Oh boo-hoo!!!

Trust me, Being put to sleep like a sick animal is painless compared to having a 5 inch shank shoved into your liver and/or jugular vein and seeing the blood poor...Ya die from shock moreso than blood loss.

I feel this former gang member would be killed within a year if he had his sentence changed to life without parole and if he was to subjected to having to be put among the general prison population (A hint to that is his body building regiment), Mainly because those gang members will feel his is a turncoat, and there will always be someone who will try to do the deed as a glory kill to prove that you never truly escape a gang's reach!

Brian "An eye for an eye will soon leave us all blind" j.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Lux

He's on a high horse? Yes it appears you have confused modern, western ethics for some idiot on a high horse. Step outside your little shelter there and realise that this is not some crazy hippie idea, infact the idea that we can teach people lessons via murder is so barbaric and to believe in this is a sign of stupidity. It is seriously beyond comprehension to me in a modern, western society. Utterly disgraceful and don't take the easy way out and claim I care for this man more than his victims, just a warning incase anyone chooses to because you may aswell write "I'm a close-minded person of low intelligence" in your signature then.

I'm willing to be called barbaric! KILL THEM ALL!

[Richard B]

Don't forget he was also responsible for co-founding the Crips gangs. They have gone on because of Tookie.

Schwarz said this:
"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption."

He added: "In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do."

I go back and forth on the death penalty. Ultimately it is wrong. Are we, as human beings, sophisticated enough to actually understand and correct these kind of behavioral problems? Do we understand the brain well enough to actually be able to do change or hinder murderers and other violent criminals? No. At least not now or in the near future.

So you want to spend money on keeping this murderer locked up for the rest of his life, in a decent facility and fed three times a day? Frankly, Tookie is afraid to die. If I were in his shoes, I'd rather die than waste away my life in a prison cell. And you know what...anyone can write a book.

I also was unfortunate enough to see the crime scene photographs from his truly brutal killings. Not pleasant.

Like the governor, Tookie refuses to take responsibility for what he did. He's a loser and now for the families of the victims, they will have justice.

I hope none of you here ever, ever have to have a family member or close friend murdered in cold blood.

[Richard B]

I had a afterthought. Would anyone like to see Osama bin Laden killed or dead?

[BombaySapphire3]

originally posted by SteveMACD Yeah, but if there was ONE state where his poll numbers would improve by NOT putting a guy to death, it's California.

Quote:

If so the state has significantly changed demographically since 20 years ago when a state Supreme Court Chief Justice by the name of Rose Bird was railroaded by CA Republicans for her anti -death penatly stance in a recall election.Still one of the great shames of recent CA history.I'm just curious how many other Western industrialized nations still have the death penalty?I know the U.S. is one of the holdouts.No wonder our international reputation as a just.compassionate and humane place has gone to hell in a handbag.