My rant about concert setlists - Page 8

amber · #**106** 11-05-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

The same way Lindsey's label affected how Gift of Screws turned out artistically. By saying, "Make this more MOR, or we're not going to release it... unless you call it Fleetwood Mac."

So...what? Are you saying that someone told Stevie to make her songs more MOR, and that it yielded what she considers an artistic triumph?

No one made her release it with the Mac...basically, I don't get how those to things are analagous.

Jyqm · #**107** 11-05-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

When you said short sighted, I thought you meant that the general concert going public will get burnt out on the same set list and it is, thus, short sighted of them to keep that essentially the same list. Sorry for any confusion if you did not meant that. But, what did you mean by short sighted?

I meant just what you said down here:

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I think they perceive themselves as the public wanting to hear the hits, etc. So, they think they are giving the public what they want.

That is short-sighted They're not seeing the forest for the trees here.

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Which brings me to my point that they are correct in their reasoning because the public keeps coming back to see them despite any wish we all have for more variety.

"That's specious reasoning, dad."
"How do you figure?"
"Well, I could just as easily say that this rock keeps tigers away."
"How does it work?"
"It doesn't work!"
"Uh huh."
"It's just a stupid rock!"
"Uh huh."
"But I don't see any tigers around here, do you?"
... "Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock."

Their reasoning isn't correct, it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. They've got no evidence that people would stop showing up if they didn't play 17 hit singles, 6 new tracks and a lone wildcard.

David · #**108** 11-05-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Bravo, bravo. I think they're obsessed with trying to maintain/match their heyday. They're an oldies hit parade now.

As I told Stew, I might go see them again & might even enjoy it if they fired all their entourage except for the riggers & such, & played folks songs from America's rich past & perhaps even some songs from the Gaslight Era here at the Cerritos Center for the Performing Arts.

Otherwise, they're out there trying to recapture their bygone era & trying to "rock" & it all strikes me as either phony or an earnest attempt but a dismal failure, in artistic terms (although financially they still bring in their big bucks). The Fleetwood Mac thing doesn't grab me any more. I'd rather watch their 1977 videos.

strandinthewind · #**109** 11-05-2005, 06:11 PM

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Originally Posted by David

I would say that's true in principle but sometimes false in particulars. I've stopped going to see the band, so they've lost me as a concert attendee. They had me for many years, a couple of decades, but they've lost me. My absence isn't going to break them, obviously. But I'm evidence that FM is giving some of the public what it wants & not giving some of the public what it wants.

I agree that they have lost much of their public. I guess they figure the majority of the people who go to see them want the hits peppered with rarer stuff like BC on this last tour.

I also have to wonder what would happen if they did not play Dreams, Rhiannon, GYOW, etc. Those sounds get the loudest response at all the concerts I went to - in fact you could hear the arena singing along with them. So, if they played no hits and just obscure stuff what would happen - would they be able to sell that tour to anything but 2,000 person hall. I honestly do not know.

Jyqm · #**110** 11-05-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

So...what? Are you saying that someone told Stevie to make her songs more MOR, and that it yielded what she considers an artistic triumph?

No one made her release it with the Mac...basically, I don't get how those to things are analagous.

Well I think Jason's point was simply that Stevie seems to be happy working on a big label, as evidenced by the fact that she was so pleased with TISL, so she's really got no reason to want to switch or go someplace else.

strandinthewind · #**111** 11-05-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

. . . Their reasoning isn't correct, it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. They've got no evidence that people would stop showing up if they didn't play 17 hit singles, 6 new tracks and a lone wildcard.

I saw many concerts on the SYW tour and the Enchanted, TISL, and GD tours. the loudest responses from the audience came from the standards. I mean it sounded like the entire arena was singing GYOW. So, I think they see that and figure that is what the public wants and if audience reaction is any indication, they are correct.

David · #**112** 11-05-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

But as far as the capable but not wildly gifted engineers and all that...um...how much could Lindsey do? Couldn't he make up for that in some way?

He could do it all on his own. He knows how.

But for some reason or reasons, he decided not to the last time around. There was a parade through of co-producers & mixers & probably mobsters, for all I know.

The root of all that was probably that Lindsey felt guys like Mark Needham were actually helping him (i.e., the band) to set his artistic sights & then achieve them. I don't think there was anything more mysterious than that at work.

Personally, I think Lindsey no longer has the amazing ear that he used to have. He either encouraged or put the stamp of approval on too much on Say You Will that is a engineering mumbo-jumbo.

strandinthewind · #**113** 11-05-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Well I think Jason's point was simply that Stevie seems to be happy working on a big label, as evidenced by the fact that she was so pleased with TISL, so she's really got no reason to want to switch or go someplace else.

Yes, that is what I was saying.

amber · #**114** 11-05-2005, 06:17 PM

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Originally Posted by David

Personally, I think Lindsey no longer has the amazing ear that he used to have. He either encouraged or put the stamp of approval on too much on Say You Will that is a engineering mumbo-jumbo.

Like what?

amber · #**115** 11-05-2005, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Well I think Jason's point was simply that Stevie seems to be happy working on a big label, as evidenced by the fact that she was so pleased with TISL, so she's really got no reason to want to switch or go someplace else.

Oh. Well, one reason is that she could then not have as many costs to pay back, and if that would make her more adventurous with her setlists, that would be good.
Since non of this is going to happen, obviously, that's a moot point.

David · #**116** 11-05-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

Like what?

Oh, like the low bass on the first track, & the bad editing of the various lead vocal trax on Goodbye Baby. Lots of other little bothersome things to these ears on that album. They're either technical/human errors or they're deliberate artistic "statements," but either way they bespeak a weakening of his once-mighty ear.

strandinthewind · #**117** 11-05-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

Oh. Well, one reason is that she could then not have as many costs to pay back, and if that would make her more adventurous with her setlists, that would be good.
Since non of this is going to happen, obviously, that's a moot point.

Interestingly, La Nicks has to be willing to put her music with a producer as she cannot do it herself. So, I think having that trust with someone unproven commercially would be hard for most to have especially when a false move could ruin her career. So, I think she knows she commands more drawing power for a named producer if she is with a larger label.

David · #**118** 11-05-2005, 06:23 PM

I just wanna say that we're having a really cool discussion & everyone is being really cool & calm & the promise of a message board is being fulfilled right here & now, thanks to everyone!!

strandinthewind · #**119** 11-05-2005, 06:23 PM

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Originally Posted by David

I just wanna say that we're having a really cool discussion & everyone is being really cool & calm & the promise of a message board is being fulfilled right here & now, thanks to everyone!!

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!! I was just thinking the same thing

amber · #**120** 11-05-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Oh, like the low bass on the first track, & the bad editing of the various lead vocal trax on Goodbye Baby. Lots of other little bothersome things to these ears on that album. They're either technical/human errors or they're deliberate artistic "statements," but either way they bespeak a weakening of his once-mighty ear.

Oh. The only thing I really, really noticed was EFO.
I thought the rest was the difficulty of making Stevie sound better. Or something.
I guess my question requires to many specific things, things where we'd have to be listening to the album, and you go "see, right there, that part, it should've been blah blah etc"