fritz and destiny.... - Page 9

sparky · #**121** 10-24-2005, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

No worries... I don't have a desire to debate this stuff with you or anyone else anymore. Minds are resolutely made up on all sides with no room allotted for looking at something from a different perspective, so we'd just end up going around and around in increasingly tiresome circles.

Just thought I'd post my interpretation once more, in the off-chance that someone out there might find something of interest in it.

Okay. I thought maybe there was something about Joan Of Arc the historical figure that I didn't know that might shed some light on this as some kind relevant allegorical statement. I am certainly interested in something that might help make some kind of sense of this song. But, God Knows the last thing on earth I am interested in is a debate with you over Stevie's Tango songs.

Johnny Stew · #**122** 10-24-2005, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparky

"She came in tired, and they said that tired was the end if the line."

Or "I came in tired."

Who are the two they's ?

I meant to comment on this in my first response.
When you asked "who are the two 'they's'," I take it you're referring to her use of "they" twice in the line, "They came in tired, and they said tired was the end of the line"?

She's not referring to two separate "they's," but rather the same "they."
In one of the other outtake versions/demos, she sings it as, "They came in tired -- saying tired was just the end of the line."

Just wanted to clarify that, though I realize it won't make a difference.

Kelly · #**123** 10-24-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

Uhmmm, I'm probably gotta get slammed for this, and I just
love 'er ta death but -
Gypsy?
All Lindsey....
Almost 100%.
She's brilliant -
But Gypsy?
I know the words mean a lot to her and that she wrote them -
but the song itself?
Lindsey.

OMG..you are gonna get slammed for that one. I agree though...he influenced that song immensely. There is a reason he sites Gypsy as the most important song he ever produced for her.

David · #**124** 10-24-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

Your point about Tango is interesting, and though I don't find most of it her strongest material, I'm inclined to agree with you about the relationship of her material to all the others' songs.

When I See You Again is the most powerful Fleetwood Mac track of the 1980s.

amber · #**125** 10-24-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It's my personal opinion that Stevie was being cynical (in her characteristically melodramatic way) with these lyrics....

They wanted images, when images were unspoken.
They depended upon illusion... calling the illusion, "gold and glitter."
They came in tired, and they said tired was "the end of the line."

and

Well, there's a few "martyrs" in our century.
They take a limosine, because everything else is taken care of.
And they don't even know what they "died" for....

In her 'Rock A Little' interview with Jim Ladd, Stevie talked about her famous and talented male friends, and how they had very little motivation or ambition, and how it always drove her crazy that they were perfectly happy to just lay around and be waited on, rather than using their time to create more songs. She said that she'd practically have to drag them to their guitar or piano, to get them to write something.

So I feel she was commenting on the general nature of spoiled and pampered rock stars... and I think, from the lyrics, that she knew she was indicting herself in the process.

Of course, the last time I voiced that interpretation, it was thoroughly and resoundly shot down, without so much as a second thought.

thanks, stew. that does make more sense than her actually saying that, you know, without irony?

strandinthewind · #**126** 10-24-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

When I See You Again is the most powerful Fleetwood Mac track of the 1980s.

It is up there, that is for sure. I just think the production was not that great and LB should have restrained her Baby fest.

strandinthewind · #**127** 10-24-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly

OMG..you are gonna get slammed for that one. I agree though...he influenced that song immensely. There is a reason he sites Gypsy as the most important song he ever produced for her.

Oh I agree that he produced it to perfection for a reason and that song went throuigh numberous incarnations prior to the final album cut.

But, I am unsure if it is about him. I think the bright eyes are her own eyes in that Sister of the Moon and IMO GDW way - In other words, the gypsy that remains is Stevie Nicks.

I do think though that the reason he paid so much attention to it was because she is singing about the girl he fell in love with, not what she had become.

David · #**128** 10-24-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

thanks, stew. that does make more sense than her actually saying that, you know, without irony?

Jim asked her what "priest of nothing" meant. I thought it was some sort of monastic order hitherto unheard of. . . maybe the Order of the Garters or something.

Stevie then said she was a priestess of "way too much": How many concerts can I do? How many hospitals can I visit? How many recording sessions can I do? How many photo shoots can I do? How many interviews can I do?

Poor lady just ran herself ragged.

Why couldn't she just kick back & enjoy herself, like all of us who skip off to work Monday through Friday at 8 in the morning with a smile on our faces & a euphoric bounce in our steps?

David · #**129** 10-24-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do think though that the reason he paid so much attention to it was because she is singing about the girl he fell in love with, not what she had become.

I think he put a lot of work into it because he concocted some great ideas -- the pentatonic figure, for example -- & got a great rhythm track from John & Mick, & when you're a great arranger & engineer & you get amazing things recorded, you get excited & keep running with it.

But I've always been one for demystifying the dialectic. Where some fans see great wrenching emotional upheavals being instrumental in songcraft & recordcraft, I often see happenstance or at most a spirited experimentation.

What AM I talking about . . . ? It's ten o'clock in the morn.

amber · #**130** 10-24-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Jim asked her what "priest of nothing" meant. I thought it was some sort of monastic order hitherto unheard of. . . maybe the Order of the Garters or something.

Stevie then said she was a priestess of "way too much": How many concerts can I do? How many hospitals can I visit? How many recording sessions can I do? How many photo shoots can I do? How many interviews can I do?

Poor lady just ran herself ragged.

Why couldn't she just kick back & enjoy herself, like all of us who skip off to work Monday through Friday at 8 in the morning with a smile on our faces & a euphoric bounce in our steps?

yep. I would hate if I had to do concerts and interviews and photo shoots and recording sessions.

strandinthewind · #**131** 10-24-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think he put a lot of work into it because he concocted some great ideas -- the pentatonic figure, for example -- & got a great rhythm track from John & Mick, & when you're a great arranger & engineer & you get amazing things recorded, you get excited & keep running with it.

But I've always been one for demystifying the dialectic. Where some fans see great wrenching emotional upheavals being instrumental in songcraft & recordcraft, I often see happenstance or at most a spirited experimentation.

What AM I talking about . . . ? It's ten o'clock in the morn.

Yes you are and you are making sense, though I think LB saw something extra in this song and went with it and through many other versions before reaching this one.

seekerj · #**132** 10-24-2005, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliceLover

Can you confirm this? Ive heard different views saying that she was not on klonopin during the recording of OSOTM......

I think it's mentioned on Stevie's vh1's "Behind The Music". A doctor put her on Klonopin after she kicked cocaine as a way of keeping her from going back to cocaine. This has also been mentioned in interviews. I know in one interview she says that she was still able to do one album she was proud of, her "magic" album (TOSOTM), despite the Klonopin. I will try to locate the interview.

Besides, if Klonopin didn't appear until the making of Street Angel (earl 1990's), why would she be put on something to keep her off cocaine so many years after she quit (1986)?

Can you point me to interviews where it mentions that she wasn't put on Klonopin until the making of Street Angel? Maybe I misunderstood.

Can any other Ledgies help with any information about this?

Thanks!
- Jim

strandinthewind · #**133** 10-24-2005, 12:34 PM

She said most of OSOTM was written prior to the geater effects of the Klonopin, which I think began to happen at some point during the recording of OSOTM and certainly they were there for some of the concerts I saw

David · #**134** 10-24-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

She said most of OSOTM was written prior to the geater effects of the Klonopin, which I think began to happen at some point during the recording of OSOTM and certainly they were there for some of the concerts I saw

I think I agree with you here. She was probably recording much of "Mirror" in 1988, & I think she was already taking the tranquilizers by then. She may have been taking them as far back as the Tango Tour. To me, her interspersed closeup footage from the Cow Palace looked tranquilized. And she was definitely tranquilized by the time of the 1989 solo tour. Those were really some tranquil nights!

strandinthewind · #**135** 10-24-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think I agree with you here. She was probably recording much of "Mirror" in 1988, & I think she was already taking the tranquilizers by then. She may have been taking them as far back as the Tango Tour. To me, her interspersed closeup footage from the Cow Palace looked tranquilized. And she was definitely tranquilized by the time of the 1989 solo tour. Those were really some tranquil nights!

She had some cool moments on the Tango tour, but I think she was scared onstage because she had to go out there "alone" for the first time in over a decade.