W approval rating continues to decline - Page 18

dissention · #**256** 10-18-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

No, there actually is logic behind it. I'm not the only one to have this realization about a flat tax!

There's no logic behind it. Instituting a sales tax that would end up costing citizens twenty-five cents on the dollar once state, local, and federal taxes are added up is just plain dumb and unrealistic.

dissention · #**257** 10-18-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And I am supposed to lose sleep over my belief in a flat tax?

Does the Nazi Youth Pope wear a funny hat?

dissention · #**258** 10-18-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Are you opposed to the flat tax of 15% with no deductions for those making over $50,000 and no tax for those making less, which many speculate would fill the tax coffers?

Nah, I might be fine with that, though I wouldn't object to seeing the rich get f*cked over like they've f*cked everyone else over.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**259** 10-18-2005, 11:27 PM

Just because I'm too tired to give the argument myself tonight, and also because I am a little drunk...

Here are the "pros" of the institution of a flat tax...

Simplicity
The enactment of a flat tax system simplifies the tax code by only taxing income at its source. The U.S. tax code for example is currently over 9 million words long and contains many loopholes, deductions, and exemptions that - proponents of flat-tax claim - complicate and create inefficiencies in tax collection. It is argued that the system in its form stifles economic growth by distorting economic incentives and allowing and encouraging tax evasion. With the transparency of a flat tax, there are fewer incentives to create tax shelters and avoid paying one’s share.

The simplest form would clearly be the pure flat tax without deductions. The Economist article points out that it would be possible for companies to just deduct the flat rate from their entire pool of taxable income and send it in to the government along with the check for the flat rate on their profits. As an example, say that in 2005, ACME makes $3 million in profit, spent $2 million on salaries and wages, and a further $1 million on other expenses that the IRS treats as taxable income, such as stock options, bonuses, and certain executive privileges. If the flat tax rate was 15%, the company need only withhold that percent of the listed expenses and send in a single check for $900,000 to the IRS. Most of their employees wouldn't have to send in a check of their own. They would only have to if they made an outside income from personal ventures. Even if one made money on an equity transaction regarded as "short term capital gains" which is taxed at normal income tax rates, the brokerage could withhold the 15% of the difference and send it in with their taxes. The Economist points out that such a system would reduce the number of filers that need to send in tax forms from the current 130 million individuals, families, and businesses, to a mere 8 million businesses.

Cost of processing tax returns
It is also argued that the governments' cost of processing tax returns would become much smaller since the relevant tax bodies could be abolished or massively downsized. Currently, Germany for example spends 3.7 billion euros per year on this.

Height of tax revenues
Some proponents of a flat tax claim that it will result in higher revenues for the government, by simplifying the tax code and removing certain loopholes currently used by corporations and the rich to pay less taxes.

Eliminating double taxation
A flat tax is one method of eliminating double taxation. This is a benefit to retired people collecting from personal savings accounts, corporate dividends, and capital gains, all of which would already have been taxed at the corporate income level. Social security benefits (a tax in itself) would also become free of taxation. Estates taxes, also known as the “death tax”, would be phased out allowing more wealth to be bequeathed to family members.

Charity
Charitable giving would be helped by a flat tax in that people give more when their incomes are higher. A survey conducted ranked tax deduction #7 in a list of reasons people have for donating money to worthy causes. The poor will also be helped in that a simplified tax code will eliminate the need for costly tax experts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/

strandinthewind · #**260** 10-18-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

There's no logic behind it. Instituting a sales tax that would end up costing citizens twenty-five cents on the dollar once state, local, and federal taxes are added up is just plain dumb and unrealistic.

I tend to agree that the sales tax would be hard to implement and I think it would be ineffective. I am all for my version of the flat tax though and many think it would work. Interestingly, under my plan, many people would pay more in taxes than they now do.

strandinthewind · #**261** 10-18-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Nah, I might be fine with that, though I wouldn't object to seeing the rich get f*cked over like they've f*cked everyone else over.

Does this mean we can make out now

dissention · #**262** 10-18-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Just because I'm too tired to give the argument myself tonight, and also because I am a little drunk...

Here are the "pros" of the institution of a flat tax...

Simplicity
The enactment of a flat tax system simplifies the tax code by only taxing income at its source. The U.S. tax code for example is currently over 9 million words long and contains many loopholes, deductions, and exemptions that - proponents of flat-tax claim - complicate and create inefficiencies in tax collection. It is argued that the system in its form stifles economic growth by distorting economic incentives and allowing and encouraging tax evasion. With the transparency of a flat tax, there are fewer incentives to create tax shelters and avoid paying one’s share.

The simplest form would clearly be the pure flat tax without deductions. The Economist article points out that it would be possible for companies to just deduct the flat rate from their entire pool of taxable income and send it in to the government along with the check for the flat rate on their profits. As an example, say that in 2005, ACME makes $3 million in profit, spent $2 million on salaries and wages, and a further $1 million on other expenses that the IRS treats as taxable income, such as stock options, bonuses, and certain executive privileges. If the flat tax rate was 15%, the company need only withhold that percent of the listed expenses and send in a single check for $900,000 to the IRS. Most of their employees wouldn't have to send in a check of their own. They would only have to if they made an outside income from personal ventures. Even if one made money on an equity transaction regarded as "short term capital gains" which is taxed at normal income tax rates, the brokerage could withhold the 15% of the difference and send it in with their taxes. The Economist points out that such a system would reduce the number of filers that need to send in tax forms from the current 130 million individuals, families, and businesses, to a mere 8 million businesses.

Cost of processing tax returns
It is also argued that the governments' cost of processing tax returns would become much smaller since the relevant tax bodies could be abolished or massively downsized. Currently, Germany for example spends 3.7 billion euros per year on this.

Height of tax revenues
Some proponents of a flat tax claim that it will result in higher revenues for the government, by simplifying the tax code and removing certain loopholes currently used by corporations and the rich to pay less taxes.

Eliminating double taxation
A flat tax is one method of eliminating double taxation. This is a benefit to retired people collecting from personal savings accounts, corporate dividends, and capital gains, all of which would already have been taxed at the corporate income level. Social security benefits (a tax in itself) would also become free of taxation. Estates taxes, also known as the “death tax”, would be phased out allowing more wealth to be bequeathed to family members.

Charity
Charitable giving would be helped by a flat tax in that people give more when their incomes are higher. A survey conducted ranked tax deduction #7 in a list of reasons people have for donating money to worthy causes. The poor will also be helped in that a simplified tax code will eliminate the need for costly tax experts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/

Nope, sorry, no sale. It's regressive taxation and it would place an unfair burden on those who are already poor.

dissention · #**263** 10-18-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Does this mean we can make out now

Oh, I suppose.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**264** 10-18-2005, 11:33 PM

Not true I think that most every American would benefit under a flat tax system as I stated above. An increase in national income will increase charitable giving, lower interest rates will more than offset the loss of the mortgage deduction, the income exemption will continue the tax code's progressive precedent, the deduction for dependent children will double, and every taxpayer will see their tax rates reduced.