Favorite Albums of 2005

[Brwn_eyes0511]

The label answer is getting a little closer that to what I'm asking about, but then the question becomes, why sign up with a "Christian" label? Why do these artists choose to restrict themselves to a "Christian" music audience (because, once you label yourself as a "Christian" musician, that's largely what you're doing) rather than just put their music out there for the whole of the population to discover?

Like they are going to be that picky about who is signing them!!! Would you turn down any label deal? And also her label is promoted by Sony/Epic, which actually just started with her new record that came out Tuesday. So hopefully this means they are going to try and push her into the larger arena occupied by Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, MercyMe, Swithfoot...ect....

1) Kanye West is one of the biggest "secular" music stars in the world right now, and he had a HUGE hit single last year with the song "Jesus Walks," the chorus of which is, "(Jesus Walk)/God show me the way 'cause the Devil's tryin' to break me down/(Jesus Walk with me)/The only thing that I pray is that my feet don't fail me now/(Jesus Walk)/And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right my wrongs/(Jesus Walk)/I want to talk to God but I'm afraid 'cause we ain't spoke in so long." Incidentally, the song also grapples with this same idea of yours, that the music industry won't embrace a song about Jesus. But the song's massive success proves that idea dead wrong.

A rap artist who thinks that "President Bush doesn't care about black people"... Yea he is really going to appeal to a large Christian audience.

2) Sufjan Stevens is an artist who is very open about his Christianity, and a number of songs on his album Illinois are religious in nature. Critics have almost universally praised the album as one of the year's best, and it's become a commercial success by most independent music standards.

A person I have never even heard of! Aren't they sort of in the "limited" boat as well...If you have never heard of Sara and I have never heard of this person.

from Willie Nelson's 1976 gospel album The Troublemaker

Country artist....

to John Coltrane's 1964 masterpiece A Love Supreme.

the early 1960's....

You seem to have this dichotomous idea of the music world where there are self-labelled "Christian" artists who write songs about their religion, and then there are "secular" artists who write only about secular matters. But this simply isn't the case. There are many "secular" artists on "secular" labels who write music that deals with generally religious and/or specifically Christian themes and issues. And since this is the case, and everybody seems to be co-existing rather nicely, my question is why some artists feel the need to segregate themselves as "Christian" artists, shutting themselves off from the broader music industry.[/QUOTE]

Because it is a large conspiracy to make you all angry.

And in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of Christian artist are ARE well known and have made it in the secular music world. Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, MercyMe, Switchfoot, Staci Orrico, etc...

And look this isn't some sort of judgmental call on anyone’s part. I listen to ALL types of music. I just think it is unfair to criticize the Christian music industry. If you don't like it then don't listen. I just find it hilarious that it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

A rap artist who thinks that "President Bush doesn't care about black people"... Yea he is really going to appeal to a large Christian audience.

What does that have to do with anything? The song is very explicitly about the artist's relationship with Jesus, and it was a huge commercial success. I offered it as an example when you claimed that "secular" artists would confront massive backlash if they released songs with Christian themes.

Are you just purposefully and blatantly ignoring the points I'm making? Because I'm trying to take you seriously and have an actual discussion with you.

A person I have never even heard of! Aren't they sort of in the "limited" boat as well...If you have never heard of Sara and I have never heard of this person.

All right, fine, that's it. I give up on you. You're either a total idiot who can't read, or you're willfully misreading everything that I post. I'm not sure which is worse. But I'll repeat one more time that I said that "Christian" musicians seem to be limiting themselves in the range of topics they write about; it had absolutely nothing to do with popularity. If you've never heard of Sufjan Stevens, that's your problem, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. He's a devoted Christian who makes wonderful music, at any rate.

Country artist....

Your point being?

the early 1960's....

Your point being?

Because it is a large conspiracy to make you all angry.

And in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of Christian artist are ARE well known and have made it in the secular music world. Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, MercyMe, Switchfoot, Staci Orrico, etc...

And look this isn't some sort of judgmental call on anyone’s part. I listen to ALL types of music. I just think it is unfair to criticize the Christian music industry. If you don't like it then don't listen. I just find it hilarious that it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ.

What on earth are you talking about! What you posted there has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I posted!

And once again: Where are you getting this idea that it is somehow "unacceptable" to sing about Jesus in the so-called "secular" music industry?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

What does that have to do with anything? The song is very explicitly about the artist's relationship with Jesus, and it was a huge commercial success. I offered it as an example when you claimed that "secular" artists would confront massive backlash if they released songs with Christian themes.

Are you just purposefully and blatantly ignoring the points I'm making? Because I'm trying to take you seriously and have an actual discussion with you.

No, I thought I was addressing them?!? I guess I have no idea where you are going with this then.

All right, fine, that's it. I give up on you. You're either a total idiot who can't read, or you're willfully misreading everything that I post. I'm not sure which is worse. But I'll repeat one more time that I said that "Christian" musicians seem to be limiting themselves in the range of topics they write about; it had absolutely nothing to do with popularity. If you've never heard of Sufjan Stevens, that's your problem, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. He's a devoted Christian who makes wonderful music, at any rate.

I thought I had already addressed to you why they label themselves as Christian artist. It is there choice and how they chose to define themselves. I too wish sometimes that they could expand their audience even more, especially someone who has so much to say like Sara Groves.

What on earth are you talking about! What you posted there has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I posted!

And once again: Where are you getting this idea that it is somehow "unacceptable" to sing about Jesus in the so-called "secular" music industry?

What on earth are you talking about? I thought what I posted did have to do with what you were talking about. You are asking why the label themselves as Christian artist and I thought I had answered that already more than once.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And I do hope that you realize that Christian music is one of the LARGEST growing genre's of music...

Yep, just burnin' up the charts in Baghdad.

[xdreamsunwindx]

Oh, hell. I don't think I bought many albums *from* 2005. And I'm not explaining. If you have a problem with this, then it sucks to be you.

Garbage - Bleed Like Me
Aimee Mann - The Forgotten Arm
The White Stripes - Get Behind Me Satan
Nine Inch Nails - With Teeth
The Mainliners - Bring On the Sweetlife (not that anyone has heard it, but I might add that it's best listened to live in a smokey dive bar)

Yeah. I've been too into my Velvet Underground albums to listen to anything new. Though, I love me some Rilo Kiley and The Shins. I also bought the Anna Nalick album which was decent for about 10 minutes. Now it just sucks.

PS: Amy Grant was performing at some mall over here a few weeks ago. I wanted to go. So I could point and laugh. Etc.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Yep, just burnin' up the charts in Baghdad.

Ohhh that would be nice. You know how we have to convert them to Christianity and all...

[Richard B]

I should add that I love the new Rolling Stones album 'A Bigger Bang.' I was hooked the first listen.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Ohhh that would be nice. You know how we have to convert them to Christianity and all...

Not until we get their oil, though.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Not until we get their oil, though.

Well, duh!

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Richard B

I should add that I love the new Rolling Stones album 'A Bigger Bang.' I was hooked the first listen.

Richard, I always misread your signature the first time I look your posts, and I think to myself, "What an odd way to restrict oneself. I wonder, are metaphors off-limits, too?"

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Richard, I always misread your signature the first time I look your posts, and I think to myself, "What an odd way to restrict oneself. I wonder, are metaphors off-limits, too?"

Metaphors are wonderous things.

Sorry, I really hate smilies. I think they are silly. I think the beautiful English language, when used correctly, makes a point all on its own.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

1. THEY ARE

So were a ton of other mainstream artists, a point which you seem unable to address. Look at Johnny Cash's last big hit, 2003's "Hurt." Since it was originally a Nine Inch Nails song, I have a really hard time calling this country, but Mr. Cash was the type of guy who could cross all kind of musical boundaries. The song itself wasn't necessarily religious (originally, it was about the angst of wanting to beat heroin), but the video featured lots of footage of a movie about the life of Jesus that Mr. Cash produced himself. The result was a visual that suggested a man who was close to death calling out for Jesus. How Christian is that? That's the type of thing that is religious, crosses all kinds of musical genres, and was able to earn the respect of critics, consumers, and musicians. If anything, this one song probably earned him MORE fans. It was art at its purist, and deeply honest. There was no backlash.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

2. They feel that have been called to a ministry of music

Which is a point I made when I said: "They're using the almighty as a marketing tool to raise money. Hopefully, the money is being raised for some credible ministry..."

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

3. It depends on what label you are with.

Labels are about making money. The only reason there might be a "Christian" label is because they are able to focus their marketing on a certain segment of society. Even the prized "indy" label is out to turn a profit. So, this point hold absolutely no weight as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And also the facts aren't going along with your contingency that Christian music is "limiting", not when sales and interest in Contemporary Christian music is continuing to grow...

I don't think he was referring to sales potential. He was referring to creative potential. Look at Amy Grant. She was a superstar on the Christian music scene, but had to leave it once it started limiting her.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Fine, forget Sheryl (she was just the singer songwriter that kept jumping into my head)...pick ANY secular pop artist, and if they were to come out with a song specifically written about their love for Christ (not just GOD but JESUS CHRIST), you don't think they would receive some backlash?

The aforementioned video to "Hurt" was, I believe, the video of the year in 2003. Lots of Jesus in that video.

Eric Clapton's Blind Faith classic "Presence Of The Lord" is still deemed one of his better tunes. Clapton also had a hit with "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot."

U2 has always had a Christian element to their music. In fact, a few years back, a company was selling the books of the Bible individually, with a preface by a philosopher/personality/theologian. Bono did the liner notes for the Book of Psalms. I don't see there being any backlash against U2, considering they've had one of the top tours of 2005.

Al Green still packs in the crowds, and he's an ordained minister. He's recorded relgious and secular music, and has said that both are needed.

Aretha Franklin is the daughter of Reverend C.L. Franklin, who was one of the most influential ministers in Detroit in the 1950s. As such, her career has been extremely laced with Christian songs. Even today, she tops the list of popular female artists.

Dolly Parton is still one of the most popular female singers, and she did an album in 2003 called "For God & Country" that had several Christian songs (the first track being "The Lord Is My Shepherd").

Look at the critical success artists like Gillian Welch and Alison Krauss have earned with their gospel contributions to the "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" soundtrack that cut across musical lines.

People aren't opposed to having religion, or more specifically Christianity, in their music. They just don't want it to be the only thing interesting about an artist. The above artists that I mentioned are but a small number (the first that came to my mind) of artists who have been able to express their religion in their music, but still were able to keep the respect and attention of the masses.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So were a ton of other mainstream artists, a point which you seem unable to address. Look at Johnny Cash's last big hit, 2003's "Hurt." Since it was originally a Nine Inch Nails song, I have a really hard time calling this country, but Mr. Cash was the type of guy who could cross all kind of musical boundaries. The song itself wasn't necessarily religious (originally, it was about the angst of wanting to beat heroin), but the video featured lots of footage of a movie about the life of Jesus that Mr. Cash produced himself. The result was a visual that suggested a man who was close to death calling out for Jesus. How Christian is that? That's the type of thing that is religious, crosses all kinds of musical genres, and was able to earn the respect of critics, consumers, and musicians. If anything, this one song probably earned him MORE fans. It was art at its purist, and deeply honest. There was no backlash.

All great examples and I stand corrected about that.

Which is a point I made when I said: "They're using the almighty as a marketing tool to raise money. Hopefully, the money is being raised for some credible ministry..."

There ministry is to sing and witness to people, it has nothing to do with money. They have to make a living too...

Labels are about making money. The only reason there might be a "Christian" label is because they are able to focus their marketing on a certain segment of society. Even the prized "indy" label is out to turn a profit. So, this point hold absolutely no weight as far as I'm concerned.

A Christian label is a Christian label...I mean I don't know what to say here except "those are the facts"

I don't think he was referring to sales potential. He was referring to creative potential. Look at Amy Grant. She was a superstar on the Christian music scene, but had to leave it once it started limiting her.

I don't think Amy ever "left" the Christian Music Industry...but it can be a very limiting thing at times! She described it as "scratching someone’s back in the same place over and over...pretty soon the person is either going to tell you to stop or move to a different area." And she did feel as a songwriter that she needed to explore other things...which she does.

But you don't understand, because you are not a listener of Christian music (so I take it). Christian artist DO sing about other things, like Amy. So I don't understand what you are trying to say? The reason that a lot of them don't hit mainstream is not because they or their labels don't want them to...it's mostly because they are with independent labels. Most Contemporary Christian artists write better and more intriguing material than half of the secular pop world out there now.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Like they are going to be that picky about who is signing them!!! Would you turn down any label deal? And also her label is promoted by Sony/Epic, which actually just started with her new record that came out Tuesday. So hopefully this means they are going to try and push her into the larger arena occupied by Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, MercyMe, Swithfoot...ect....

A label wouldn't be interested in an artist if said artist was playing to a certain crowd. Alligator Records, a blues label, wouldn't sing a punk band.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

A rap artist who thinks that "President Bush doesn't care about black people"... Yea he is really going to appeal to a large Christian audience.

I'm sure there are many black Christians who agree with him. Or, do they not count in your argument? The fact that he's had one of the biggest albums of the year, I think it's safe to say that he's connecting with lots of people.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Country artist....

What does that have to do with anything? If anything, that hurts your argument. You can't dismiss one genre of music while rigorously defending the legitimacy of another. The fact is that country music IS mainstream these days. Country artists are among the best selling in the business.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

the early 1960's....

Again, this hurts your argument. You can't write something off as being too old when rigorously defending a concept that's just under 2000 years old. The fact remains that there have been religous songs recorded by popular artists over the years, and the songs as well as artists continue to be held in high regards, something the ilk of performers YOU'RE talking about will never reach I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of Christian artist are ARE well known and have made it in the secular music world. Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, MercyMe, Switchfoot, Staci Orrico, etc...

I'll give you MWS, but Amy Grant actually made the annoucnement that she was leaving the Christian music scene to go secular, and had a string of secular hits in the mid-late '80s. As for the rest, I've never heard of them.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And look this isn't some sort of judgmental call on anyone’s part. I listen to ALL types of music. I just think it is unfair to criticize the Christian music industry. If you don't like it then don't listen. I just find it hilarious that it is more accepted in today’s world to sing about "f*cking" then it is to sing about the love of Christ.

And then there are people who can have two thoughts at the same time. Sex is as much a part of life as religion. The problem I have is when there's too much of either. I get the EXACT same feeling whenever I have to sit through Andrew "Dice" Clay as I do "Christian" music. Both bore me to tears.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

What does that have to do with anything? If anything, that hurts your argument. You can't dismiss one genre of music while rigorously defending the legitimacy of another. The fact is that country music IS mainstream these days. Country artists are among the best selling in the business.

Woah...hold your horses. I was not BASHING country music. I am a big fan of country music. You obviously missed my point...I was noting that the collection of "religious" songs came from a COUNTRY ARTIST...where generally they are more excepting of "Christian values and ideas".