I knew this would happen

[WELSH WITCH]

Originally Posted by LongBlackScarf

Religion is completely man-made. Therefore it's going to be abused. Always.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one thinking that way.

I always say that religion is a story blown out of proportion.

[wondergirl9847]

I am a Christian. God is not a man. Jesus was a man. God is a being, a supernatural one. I do not believe that God caused this hurricane to get rid of wicked people, but perhaps it was allowed to happen by God to show the U.S. that Bush is a moron and we need change in this country. I believe things happen for a reason and I'm beginning to think this happened for a reason too...to wake people up.

Religion and faith in God...two different things.

These are my beliefs.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by WELSH WITCH

...

I always say that religion is a story blown out of proportion.

Did you make that up? It's very insightful!

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I am a Christian. God is not a man. Jesus was a man. God is a being, a supernatural one. I do not believe that God caused this hurricane to get rid of wicked people, but perhaps it was allowed to happen by God to show the U.S. that Bush is a moron and we need change in this country. I believe things happen for a reason and I'm beginning to think this happened for a reason too...to wake people up.

Religion and faith in God...two different things.

These are my beliefs.

I've been thinking the same thing. Not necessarily Bush specifically, I think that it is the larger issue of the two Americas that needs to be examined. How poor black people have been locked into poverty by racism and classism for so long. God could have perhaps guided the hurricane somewhere else but He did not. I also think there is a reason for that. However, it is still awful that this happened regardless of the reason.

[WELSH WITCH]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Did you make that up? It's very insightful!

I never make things up.

There are storytellers all over the world, telling stories that exist for centuries but sometimes these stories start a life of their own and I have a feeling that at some point in time that's what happened with what's in the bible too. Only this story was written down but most stories never have or never will.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I am a Christian. God is not a man. Jesus was a man. God is a being, a supernatural one. I do not believe that God caused this hurricane to get rid of wicked people, but perhaps it was allowed to happen by God to show the U.S. that Bush is a moron and we need change in this country. I believe things happen for a reason and I'm beginning to think this happened for a reason too...to wake people up.

Religion and faith in God...two different things.

These are my beliefs.

You know I'm not a religious person and that I don't believe in God, Christy, but I appreciate what you said. It's nice to hear from people as religious as you are who use their beliefs in God and religion to express love and kindness.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by WELSH WITCH

I never make things up.

There are storytellers all over the world, telling stories that exist for centuries but sometimes these stories start a life of their own and I have a feeling that at some point in time that's what happened with what's in the bible too. Only this story was written down but most stories never have or never will.

There are many scholars who have uncovered a lot of history about how the Bible was written and by whom. It is very fascinating. And by "making up" I meant that one sentence you wrote, not the sentiment. I see that as a truth.

[WELSH WITCH]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

There are many scholars who have uncovered a lot of history about how the Bible was written and by whom. It is very fascinating. And by "making up" I meant that one sentence you wrote, not the sentiment. I see that as a truth.

Eventhough I'm not religious I think it's a facinating subject to find out how a certain religion started and evolved into what it is now. Or why certain religions didn't survive the test of time.
Or what it is that makes people believe.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally Posted by dissention

You know I'm not a religious person and that I don't believe in God, Christy, but I appreciate what you said. It's nice to hear from people as religious as you are who use their beliefs in God and religion to express love and kindness.

Thanks Diss.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I am a Christian. God is not a man. Jesus was a man. God is a being, a supernatural one. I do not believe that God caused this hurricane to get rid of wicked people, but perhaps it was allowed to happen by God to show the U.S. that Bush is a moron and we need change in this country. I believe things happen for a reason and I'm beginning to think this happened for a reason too...to wake people up.

Religion and faith in God...two different things.

These are my beliefs.

Interesting point of view. I would say I am leaning towards that thought. However, I dont think hurricanes are acts of God. I think the weather on this planet just happens...**** happens right?

And I dont think God would push a hurricane on us to show that "Bush is a moron." You're letting your personal feelings get mixed in with your faith. Bad mistake. If you truly believe in God, then you believe he's in control. And if God is in control, then Bush is in the right place and everything is as it should be.

[wondergirl9847]

Of course I believe that God is in control. I believe He created this place, so I believe He is in control of what goes on here. I think He allows certain things to happen for whatever reasons. I didn't mean that this hurricane only happened to show us Bush is a moron, we already knew that, didn't we? LOL I think He wants us to step back and see that this country needs change, we need to question and doubt what this government is saying and doing. Things are bad right now, REALLY bad and sometimes it takes a huge disaster to bring about change. I went through a bad time in my life a few years ago and came out of it stronger and changed.

God gives us choices, we live with the consequences. Perhaps God is just as angry about Bush being the Pres too.

[LongBlackScarf]

Originally Posted by Lux

I can't imagine what kind of loving God would allow the deaths of innocent people so that a population would realise that a man who will be president for 3 more years anyway, was lying.\.

Especially since it's God's people (we're made in his own image, supposedly..) who VOTED for Bush!! I know where the semen probably came from that impregnated Mary, and so do many religious historians. She was raped by a Roman Soldier. So which is worse, being raped by God, who did all that punishing about sinning in the Garden of Eden, or being raped by a mortal man? It's all very brutal. God's brutality seems to be something we read about more in the bible than his kindness. He's always smiting, burning, punishing, banishing and throwing his weight around and yet we're all supposed to "worship him." And that brings me back to The Fear Factor. If you *don't* worship him, you're a heathen, and your ass is grass. You can't win with God! I love this piece by George Carlin. Forgive me if it's been posted somewhere else before:

From George Carlin's book "Napalm & Silly Putty" (2001; Hyperion Press)

GOD HAS GOTTA GO

I make fun of people who are religious, because I think they're fundamentally weak. But I want you to know that on a personal level, when it comes to believing in God, I tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe there is a God, who created us in his own image, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things.

I tried to believe it. But I have to tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize… something is ****ed. Something is wrong. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong.

If this is the best God can do, I’m not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of some supreme being. This is the kind of stuff you’d expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. In any well-managed universe, the guy would’ve been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago.

So, if there is a God—if there is—I think some reasonable people might agree he’s at least incompetent and maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t give a ****. Which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of his results.

I Got the Sun in the Mornin’

So, rather than becoming just another mindless, religious robot, blindly believing that everything is in the hands of some spooky, incompetent father figure who doesn’t give a ****, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on. And immediately, I thought of the sun. It happened in an instant. Overnight, I became a sun worshipper.

Well, not overnight; you can’t see the sun in the dark. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun worshipper. For several reasons: First of all, I can see the sun. Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I’m big on that. If I can see something, it kind of helps the credibility.

Every day, I can see the sun as it gives me everything I need: heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake. An occasional skin cancer, but, hey! At least there are no crucifixions. And we sun worshippers don’t go around killing other people simply because they don’t agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There’s no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don’t have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun… it never tells me I’m unworthy. It doesn’t tell me I’m a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn’t said an unkind word. Treats me fine.

Praying on My Mind

So I worship the sun. But I don’t pray to the sun. You know why? Because I wouldn’t presume on our friendship. It’s not polite. I’ve often thought people treat God rather rudely. Trillions and trillions of prayers every day, asking and pleading and begging for favors. “Do this; give me that; I need this; I want that.” And most of this praying takes place on Sunday, his day off! It’s not nice, and it’s no way to treat a friend.

But still people do pray and they pray for many different things. And that’s all right with me. I say, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But… what about the Divine Plan? Remember that? The Divine Plan? A long time ago, God came up with a Divine Plan. He gave it a lot of thought, he decided it was a good plan, and he put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing him just fine.

But now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you’re praying for isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Isn’t that sort of arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan! What good is being God if every rundown schmuck with a two-dollar prayer book can come along and **** with your plan?

And here’s another problem you might encounter. Suppose your prayers aren’t answered? What do you do then? What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will. Thy will be done”? Fine. But if it’s God’s will, and he’s going to do what he wants anyway, why bother praying in the first place? Doesn’t it seem like a big waste a time? Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go straight to “his will”? It’s all very confusing to me.

To Each His Own

So, to get around all this, I decided to worship the sun. But as I said, I don’t pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons. First of all, I think he’s a pretty good actor. To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe doesn’t **** around. In fact, he came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with. For years, I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor’s barking dog. Nothing happened. But Joe Pesci? He straightened that **** out with one visit. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a simple piece of athletic equipment.

So, I’ve been praying to Joe for a couple of years now, and I’ve noticed something. I’ve noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci are being answered at about the same 50 percent rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don’t. Same as God. Fifty-fifty. Same as the four-leaf clover, the horseshoe, the wishing well, and the rabbit’s foot. Same as the mojo man, or the voodoo lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing a goat’s testicles. It’s all the same, fifty-fifty. So just pick a superstition you like, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

Tell Me a Story, Daddy

And for those of you who look to the Bible for its moral lessons and literary qualities, I have a couple of other stories I’d like to recommend. You might want to try “The Three Little Pigs.” That’s a good one, it has a nice happy ending. Then there’s “Little Red Riding Hood,” although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I don’t care for.

And finally, I’ve always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like best: “All the king’s horses and all the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” That’s because there is no Humpty Dumpty. And there is no God. None, not one, never was. No God. Sorry.

[mylittledemon]

I'm not a religous person at all, but I truly believe that God in his (most likely) infinite wisdom gave us a brain that cannot POSSIBLY COMPREHEND the grand scheme of all things that go on around us. I think our thoughts revolve around ourselves. I mean, you take the concept of eternal life. When I think about that, I mean REALLY contemplate it...I get this weird feeling inside like 'how is that possible'? To go on, and never have an ending? Nothing in this universe other than God (if you believe in God) has lasted forever. Everything has had a beginning and will eventually have an ending.

It takes faith in something greater than ourselves to believe. I believe that God gives us all a free will to choose what we want. it's the greatest thing we have (other than sex). Most of us use it poorly and live only for ourselves. I'm guilty of that. I don't know what point I'm trying to get across...I'll stop here.