a tragedy....

[LiquidBlue5000]

Originally Posted by Nixxxed

How do you feel about bootleg copies of movies that are taped in the theater on opening day, and DVDs of them sold on street corners the next? I don't see much, if any, difference.

There is a big difference... a bootleg copy of a movie is a direct copy of the original performance... the same as if someone would rip "Bella Donna" or "The Wild Heart" and make a CD-R copy of it... i am against it because it is basically stealing from everyone involved in making that project, be it a movie or a CD.. burning a copy of "Bella Donna" is stealing from Stevie... selling a bootleg copy of Stevie's Jones Beach show from this year will not take away from Stevie financially.. and as i stated in my last post, could actually PROMOTE her shows and create more profit for her and everyone else involved... two completely different things..

In fact, the only time in the past 10 years that i have seen a bootleg possibly interfering with official sales of a recording of Stevie or Fleetwood Mac is when the Boston 2003 bootleg surfaced... however, due to its by far inferior quality from the actual release, it wasn't much of a threat, was it?

Again, there is no more money to made from a concert once the performance is over... i see no problem with a bootlegger selling his recording if there are people out there willing to buy it.. i don't do it, but i'm not gonna hold it against people who do, because i KNOW what is involved in putting a show together.. it's a pain in the ass and very time-consuming... in my opinion, the bootlegger has the right to charge for his time and effort if he/she so chooses to..

Originally Posted by Nixxxed

Just because he hasn't been, doesn't mean he won't be. He could be under surveillance right now, and could have been under surveillance for years as they build a long-term airtight case against him. We have no way of knowing, which is why I asked Daniel about his advertisements in the other thread.

i bet if Bill advertised that he was selling CD-R copies of Stevie's offically released material, he would be in jail within days.. it wouldn't take months or even years

[amber]

Originally Posted by LiquidBlue5000

... in my opinion, the bootlegger has the right to charge for his time and effort if he/she so chooses to..

Actually, according to the law, the bootlegger doesn't have a right to do anything, including recording the concert. I understand fully all of your justifications, and I may agree, but the whole thing is just still way illegal. Trackaghost thoughtfully posted the U.S. Copyright Act for you....I believe it's all there, spelled out.... Oh, wait, I don't see it now... anyway, you can make a bunch of justifications why it's not wrong, and I may agree, but in the end everyone has to admit that though what they're doing might not seem wrong, it is illegal. So, don't forget to admit that.

here's the statute.

(a) Unauthorized Acts.— Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved—
(1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,
(2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or
(3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred in the United States,
shall be subject to the remedies provided in sections 502 through 505, to the same extent as an infringer of copyright.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Originally Posted by amber

Actually, according to the law, the bootlegger doesn't have a right to do anything, including recording the concert. I understand fully all of your justifications, and I may agree, but the whole thing is just still way illegal.

I know it's still illegal.. but then again, so is oral sex in most states

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by LiquidBlue5000

bootleg recordings are not copyrighted material.. record companies don't give a crap about bootlegs.. they DO however care about file-sharing COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL which prevents them from making additional sales... there is a BIG difference between a bootlegger selling his bootlegs vs. a person sharing or selling officially released material.... if record companies honestly cared about bootlegs, don't you think Bill for example, would have been arrested and in jail by now? ... there is a huge line between the two.. and i stand firmly behind both my points on this issue..

We're all grateful for people who tape and record shows, but you should be aware that recently Don's publicist said that he is highly displeased with all the people bootlegging his shows with Stevie, especially those that sell them. He made such a noise about it that one Eagles message board took down their trading forum.

I don't know how Stevie feels, but I did want to let you know.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

We're all grateful for people who tape and record shows, but you should be aware that recently Don's publicist said that he is highly displeased with all the people bootlegging his shows with Stevie, especially those that sell them.

i think only one person out there in the Stevie community recorded his entire set... i recorded 6 of the 10 Stevie/Don shows and not once did i record anything other than the tracks that Stevie sang on... as unpleasant as that may have been for him to know, i'm sure he'll find the strength to move on..

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by LiquidBlue5000

i think only one person out there in the Stevie community recorded his entire set... i recorded 6 of the 10 Stevie/Don shows and not once did i record anything other than the tracks that Stevie sang on... as unpleasant as that may have been for him to know, i'm sure he'll find the strength to move on..

lol! I bet he'd still get pissy about those tracks. He apparently has great anger towards bootleggers!

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by LiquidBlue5000

i bet if Bill advertised that he was selling CD-R copies of Stevie's offically released material, he would be in jail within days.. it wouldn't take months or even years

That doesn't always happen, I'm afraid to say. If that were true, the record and movie industry wouldn't be campaigning so hard against illegal copies of films and music. eBay will take down an auction if they discover it's a bootleg or a pirated film, but I bet you any money than seller will be back up and running under a different name within a few days. I see it happen all the time.

This is the relevent part of the US Copyright Act (I took it down before because I thought I came off too anti-bootleg and I'm not):

1101. Unauthorized fixation and trafficking in sound recordings and music videos

(a) Unauthorized Acts. - Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved -
(1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,
(2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or
(3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred n the United States, shall be subject to the remedies provided in sections 502 through 505, to the same extent as an infringer of copyright.
(b) Definition. - As used in this section, the term "traffic in" means transport, transfer, or otherwise dispose of, to another, as consideration for anything of value, or make or obtain control of with intent to transport, transfer, or dispose of.
(c) Applicability. - This section shall apply to any act or acts that occur
on or after the date of the enactment of the Uruguay Round Agreements Act.
(d) State Law Not Preempted. - Nothing in this section may be construed to annul or limit any rights or remedies under the common law or statutes of any State.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

eBay will take down an auction if they discover it's a bootleg or a pirated film, but I bet you any money than seller will be back up and running under a different name within a few days. I see it happen all the time.

if that is the case, then someone from inside Ebay is the seller... if a seller is banned from Ebay, they are no longer allowed to just pick another user name and register again.. Ebay tracks all of their information that even if they sign up again under a different credit card, their information is tracked via the 3-digit security code on the back of every credit card.. it can't happen.. unless a family member or friend of that seller signs up for them..

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by LiquidBlue5000

if that is the case, then someone from inside Ebay is the seller... if a seller is banned from Ebay, they are no longer allowed to just pick another user name and register again.. Ebay tracks all of their information that even if they sign up again under a different credit card, their information is tracked via the 3-digit security code on the back of every credit card.. it can't happen.. unless a family member or friend of that seller signs up for them..

Selling pirate copies is a big business. I'm sure some of these people have access to more than one credit card. It can happen, I've seen it happen.

I'm not anti-bootleg, just so you know, but in the UK we have an organisation called FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) and my magazine works closely with them. A lot of people get arrested but a lot of people slip through the net despite the laws.

Selling bootlegs is selling copyrighted material, I'm afraid. Like Amber said, the upside is that it doesn't take away sales of official releases. But I know if I were Stevie or any artist I could tolerate people trading illegal bootlegs but I would hate people profiting illegally from my work. I know a lot of bands feel the same way, like I said before, some (Metallica is one surprisingly enough) even allow audience recordings, but none endorse selling those recordings.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Selling bootlegs is selling copyrighted material, I'm afraid. Like Amber said, the upside is that it doesn't take away sales of official releases. But I know if I were Stevie or any artist I could tolerate people trading illegal bootlegs but I would hate people profiting illegally from my work. I know a lot of bands feel the same way, like I said before, some (Metallica is one surprisingly enough) even allow audience recordings, but none endorse selling those recordings.

Exactly. There are many bands and artists who support people taping them and don't care, but they do have problems with people taping their shows and then selling them. Why should other people make money off of them like that? Not to mention that it stops becoming "all about the music" and into all about the money.