economy still improving

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Can a man get pregnant?

I was coming from the angle of the pregnancy was a shared thing a la the common term "we are pregnant" - but no, a man cannot get pregnant

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Mostly silly male bashing by an elitist quasi feminist - nice One must wonder why you even bother to speak to men at all

Truthfully I have no use for most men. I have a few male friends, but I stay away from relationships like the plague. I refuse to ever be victimized again.

btw: I am no elitist, I am just speaking from my own experience.

[irishgrl]

I refuse to accept that any girl over the age of 12 does not know how to get pregnant. Thus, the term "ignorance" is inappropriate. They know good and well that no sex = no baby. I think any girl who does not use her own protection during consenual sex does so at her own risk.

I am not referring to ignorance re: the mechanics of sex, I am referring to ignorance re: the CONSEQUENCES of sex.

That is a little misleading as you know the statistics on males who are raped are woefully inadequate for a variety of reasons - as they are for women for that matter.

my point was, a woman is FAR more likely to suffer negative consequences for saying NO.

Well, I think there is a difference between trying and having it fail as opposed to a free for all and then "oops I am pregnant - poor me how did this happen - its all the jerk male's fault because it was a meaningless fling and surprise he is now nowhere to be found"

as to that, I agree. I am not suggesting mass orgies here...where did you get THAT idea? What I SAID over and over again is that many women find themselves abandoned once they disclose to their partner that they are pregnant. If you dont believe me, just look up stats on the increase in single parent households

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I was referring to YOUNG women who are ignorant, and rash...and so sorry, but it IS a reason, even if you dont agree with it.

Please read my posts. I said that ignorance is not an acceptable complaint. There are all kinds of reasons for things- if one is ignorant of something and a bad consequence comes of it, you learn your lesson, accept reality, and don't make the same mistake again. As so as we allow ignorance to be an acceptable complaint for one's miseries then all responsibility has been thrown out the window.

Well, the number of women who are RAPED is much higher than the number of MEN who are raped, I guarantee you.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to say that women should be given a pass on their personal responsibility because they decide to enter relationships and/or have sex with men who will rape them?

Birth control can fail. then what? if you take birth control to prevent a pregnancy and it doesnt work.......(which does happen) your argument falls flat.

My argument doesn't fall flat- I'll state it again, since it obviously isn't getting through. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she needs to research her options. If she is aware that birth control methods can fail, and she doesn't want to get pregnant then don't allow semen to have the ability to impregnate her ovum. It's not rocket science.

OK: I was married TWICE. Each time, my husbands requested that I stop taking the pill. Each time it took about a year to become pregnant. In ALL THAT TIME, neither husband said to me "I've changed my mind, Im not ready to raise a child" EACH TIME, when I became pregnant, the Husband LEFT. I received NO support from EITHER one. I raised my girls alone. I was the ONLY ONE WHO DID TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and I submit to you that women are FAR MORE likely to take responsibility for the babies than the men. As far as I am concerned, there are MOSTLY jerks out there.

If you knew they were jerks, then why did you have kids with them? I would think after you got burned the first time that would be a little wary the second time around.

I think it would be poetic justice for a woman to go ahead and have the baby and then abandon the daddy/child, but ya know? women arent (for the most part) wired that way...

The fact that you think an eye for an eye is poetic justice suggests otherwise.

[irishgrl]

Please read my posts. I said that ignorance is not an acceptable complaint. There are all kinds of reasons for things- if one is ignorant of something and a bad consequence comes of it, you learn your lesson, accept reality, and don't make the same mistake again. As so as we allow ignorance to be an acceptable complaint for one's miseries then all responsibility has been thrown out the window.

I am not talking about a complaint, therefore this is a moot point.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to say that women should be given a pass on their personal responsibility because they decide to enter relationships and/or have sex with men who will rape them?

I never said women should be given a pass on anything! What I said was, if a woman says "no" and a man decides its a "yes" why is it only a woman has to deal with the consequences?

My argument doesn't fall flat- I'll state it again, since it obviously isn't getting through. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she needs to research her options. If she is aware that birth control methods can fail, and she doesn't want to get pregnant then don't allow semen to have the ability to impregnate her ovum. It's not rocket science.

Fine and dandy. Men should accept NO as an answer then. Thats not rocket science either.

If you knew they were jerks, then why did you have kids with them? I would think after you got burned the first time that would be a little wary the second time around.

DUH, I FOUND OUT they were jerks only after they LEFT! Do you think men wear little signs that say "Im gonna leave you high and dry if you become pregnant even though I asked you to stop taking the pill?" GET REAL. Men are con artists.

The fact that you think an eye for an eye is poetic justice suggests otherwise

The shoe doesnt fit so well on the other foot, does it?

Again, as I said, most women arent wired that way. We have something called a "maternal instinct" which men sadly do not.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . I am not suggesting mass orgies here...where did you get THAT idea?

LOL - well, they have their time and place

Originally Posted by irishgrl

What I SAID over and over again is that many women find themselves abandoned once they disclose to their partner that they are pregnant. If you dont believe me, just look up stats on the increase in single parent households

Well, a single family home is not really dispositive of a man leaving in a bad way because many women chose to have children alone and that is not really because the man leaves.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

LOL - well, they have their time and place



Well, a single family home is not really dispositive of a man leaving in a bad way because many women chose to have children alone and that is not really because the man leaves.

yes, that is also true. That is my current situation.

I know there are good men out there, they are just dammed hard to find ANNNNNNND........they're taken!
But, as I obviously have terrible taste in men, and I am much happier alone, I am just fine the way things are with my few guy friends (oddly I think my guy friends are better friends than my girlfriends EVER were) and my single life.

[DrummerDeanna]

Maybe I've just been lucky - but in the couple of instances when a stupid guy tried to weasle out of wearing a condom - I turned them down flat - and once - and here we go into TMI land - we were already involved in activity - and the first condom broke - he claimed they were too small and that we should continue without one...and I pretty much laughed at him and said, "NO WAY!"

He begged, he pleaded, etc - but I refused to back down - it was hard - BUT I DO NOT want a pregnancy - so I know what I gotta do

I gotta agree that ignorance and other arguments don't really fly - I think most women know how NOT To get pregnant

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I was coming from the angle of the pregnancy was a shared thing a la the common term "we are pregnant" - but no, a man cannot get pregnant

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Maybe I've just been lucky - but in the couple of instances when a stupid guy tried to weasle out of wearing a condom - I turned them down flat - and once - and here we go into TMI land - we were already involved in activity - and the first condom broke - he claimed they were too small and that we should continue without one...and I pretty much laughed at him and said, "NO WAY!"

He begged, he pleaded, etc - but I refused to back down - it was hard - BUT I DO NOT want a pregnancy - so I know what I gotta do

I gotta agree that ignorance and other arguments don't really fly - I think most women know how NOT To get pregnant

I think you WERE lucky! but again, I wasnt talking about the MECHANICS of sex, I was referring to the CONSEQUENCES of sex.......and young women really have no clue what awaits them for the next 18 years in terms of the sacrifices, the expenses, the childcare headaches, the hassles over custody/visitation/child support etc........its a huge life change and when you're 18 or 20 something, you've really got no clue.......

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . Fine and dandy. Men should accept NO as an answer then. Thats not rocket science either.

I think you think all men hear "no" and then ravage the helpless girl anyway. I know many many guys who respect the word "no." Does rape happen - of course it does and I hate that. But, I suggest there would be ten times the number of rapes already out there if all men disregarded the "no."

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . GET REAL. Men are con artists.

Well, those two apparently were - but two apply that generalization to all men is incorrect. And - if you get down to it, many women (though not most by any means) trap men by getting pregnant by deception. Some women also falsely claim rape for pecuniary gain or revenge. Thus, do we label all women con artists? What was that about shoes and feet

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . Again, as I said, most women arent wired that way. We have something called a "maternal instinct" which men sadly do not.

Once again, to apply that to all men is wrong. I know plenty of guys who are very maternal with their kids. Furthermore, what about two gay guys who adopt a child and provide a safe and supportive home for that child? Are you implying those two gay guys should not be able to adopt a kid because they lack the maternal instinct you allege all women have?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Maybe I've just been lucky - but in the couple of instances when a stupid guy tried to weasle out of wearing a condom - I turned them down flat - and once - and here we go into TMI land - we were already involved in activity - and the first condom broke - he claimed they were too small and that we should continue without one...and I pretty much laughed at him and said, "NO WAY!"

He begged, he pleaded, etc - but I refused to back down - it was hard - BUT I DO NOT want a pregnancy - so I know what I gotta do

I gotta agree that ignorance and other arguments don't really fly - I think most women know how NOT To get pregnant

I have to say that what you described is a hard situation. In the heat of a consenual moment, it is hard to stop when the condom breaks. Our bodies (both male and female) are made to want to see the act to its fruition. And - ya can't blame a guy for trying

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

yes, that is also true. That is my current situation.

I know there are good men out there, they are just dammed hard to find ANNNNNNND........they're taken!
But, as I obviously have terrible taste in men, and I am much happier alone, I am just fine the way things are with my few guy friends (oddly I think my guy friends are better friends than my girlfriends EVER were) and my single life.

Lord Child - being alone is Nirvana to me right now

[irishgrl]

I think you think all men hear "no" and then ravage the helpless girl anyway. I know many many guys who respect the word "no." Does rape happen - of course it does and I hate that. But, I suggest there would be ten times the number of rapes already out there if all men disregarded the "no."

I submit it happens more often than not....as you know, relatively few rapes are reported because law enforcement and society still operate under a "blame the victim" mentality........

Well, those two apparently were - but two apply that generalization to all men is incorrect. And - if you get down to it, many women (though not most by any means) trap men by getting pregnant by deception. Some women also falsely claim rape for pecuniary gain or revenge. Thus, do we label all women con artists? What was that about shoes and feet

I abhore deception of any kind, male or female. but my comment was in reference to the lengths men will go to to get inside a woman's pants...its really amazing....

Once again, to apply that to all men is wrong. I know plenty of guys who are very maternal with their kids. Furthermore, what about two gay guys who adopt a child and provide a safe and supportive home for that child? Are you implying those two gay guys should not be able to adopt a kid because they lack the maternal instinct you allege all women have?

Men in general do not have a maternal instinct as it is generally understood.
I am not saying men cant be loving with their children because they can!
But there is a vastly different bond that is created when you've had a living being inside you, you feel it kick, you are intimately connected in a way that a man can never understand no matter HOW loving they are. Its just different, and you will have to accept that.
FYI: my best friend (one of my few male friends LOL!) in the world is gay and has considered adopting. I know he would make a great father for a child but I think (since I know him so well) that it is because IMO he is in touch with his feminine side.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . but my comment was in reference to the lengths men will go to to get inside a woman's pants...its really amazing....

Well, call Mother Nature and file a complaint

Seriously, that is the way we and most other animals were made. The male is the traditional sexual aggressor.