economy still improving

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I would venture to say the large percentage of these women who find themselves in the "family way" are YOUNG, UNEDUCATED (or UNDER educated) with very little skills to depend upon in order to become financially independent . . . .

That is rank BS - I know so many educated white females who slept with anything that moved and got knocked up. You just always want to assume the women are so innocent and it is the big bad male penis who gets everyone in trouble unwillingly.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

That is rank BS - I know so many educated white females who slept with anything that moved and got knocked up. You just always want to assume the women are so innocent and it is the big bad male penis who gets everyone in trouble unwillingly.

now THAT is rank BS.....because I guarantee you that if you compare the two classes of pregnant women (educated/uneducated) you will find that the vast overwhelming majority are UNeducated. I am not saying women are innocent, what I am saying is, men abandon women who become pregnant, and once a woman is pregnant, she is stuck... and YES it IS the big bad male penis that causes trouble! a woman cant impregnate herself! I mean really! The only immaculate conception that I know of was Mary, Jesus' mom! Unfortunately, it seems as though you suffer from the same male tunnel vision that straight men suffer from when it comes to the reality of single motherhood....

Thank your maker YOU cant get pregnant m'dear.......

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Yep - because abortion was legal when you were 18 Come on - women have FAR more rights today than they did 20 years ago. I think you can never admit this though.

actually it WAS. and as for rights, The elimination of affirmative action has effectively ensured a wage/opportunity dichotomy (which can be confirmed here) Women continue to make less per dollar at the same jobs as men do, and there is a real glass ceiling for the majority of women in upper level jobs.
Link
Link 2

access to abortion information is denied, birth control is less accessible (now pharmacists are refusing to dispense birth control or the morning after pill) female minors may not receive abortions (or cross state lines to an abortion friendly state) they must tell their parents (which wasnt the case when I was younger)

What the HELL is wrong with you? I cant imagine HOW you think things are better today, unless its simply because you are male, and have NO concept of the reality for today's women. And the right wing wackos are rabid about eliminating Roe, because their ideal world has women at HOME and not cluttering up the schoolrooms or job market.

Btw: Family Court is one of the most misogynistic male bastions in our society.
I am VERY familiar with Family Court workings, both from the Court Clerk standpoint, from the Family Law Attorney Standpoint and from the Litigant standpoint.

[dudden22]

No economic improvement here, or in the whole state for that matter. I will believe it when I see it. I agree that women have more rights now, but they are slowly going to be taken away if we continue to sit back and let these mentally ill people (Evangelicals) take over our country. The same will happen to gays.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by dudden22

but they are slowly going to be taken away if we continue to sit back and let these mentally ill people (Evangelicals) take over our country. The same will happen to gays.

actually, its been happening in earnest since the 80's.
HERE is a timeline of the whittling away at Roe....

Anybody familiar with Tanya Meilich? She wrote "The Republican War on Women" (she is a Republican btw) which lays out chapter and verse the systematic effort to return women to 2nd class status. Women, more than any other "minority" (which is an ironic misnomer) are under attack by the established white male power structure. Fact.

I expect white males to deny it.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

now THAT is rank BS.....because I guarantee you that if you compare the two classes of pregnant women (educated/uneducated) you will find that the vast overwhelming majority are UNeducated. I am not saying women are innocent, what I am saying is, men abandon women who become pregnant, and once a woman is pregnant, she is stuck... and YES it IS the big bad male penis that causes trouble! a woman cant impregnate herself! I mean really! The only immaculate conception that I know of was Mary, Jesus' mom! Unfortunately, it seems as though you suffer from the same male tunnel vision that straight men suffer from when it comes to the reality of single motherhood....

Thank your maker YOU cant get pregnant m'dear.......

Hmmm... ya know- if it's a woman's body and a woman has the right to choose (I agree with those statements), then it's a woman's responsibility to keep herself in situations where she's not going to get pregnant (if that's what she chooses). If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should tell her partner that and make sure that the dude is using a condom and that she is using some form of birth control. Not all women can take birth control pills, but there are other forms of birth control out there.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Hmmm... ya know- if it's a woman's body and a woman has the right to choose (I agree with those statements), then it's a woman's responsibility to keep herself in situations where she's not going to get pregnant (if that's what she chooses). If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should tell her partner that and make sure that the dude is using a condom and that she is using some form of birth control. Not all women can take birth control pills, but there are other forms of birth control out there.

Something must be in the air, dear Tower - for once again, I agree

When I read the previous about a woman not being able to impregnate herself my first thought was, "she sure as hell can - by sleeping around irresonsibly!!"

I have managed to avoid getting pregnant thus far -and if (God forbid) I were to get pregnant - it would be just as much my fault as the big male penises fault

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

actually it WAS. and as for rights, The elimination of affirmative action has effectively ensured a wage/opportunity dichotomy (which can be confirmed here) Women continue to make less per dollar at the same jobs as men do, and there is a real glass ceiling for the majority of women in upper level jobs.

access to abortion information is denied, birth control is less accessible (now pharmacists are refusing to dispense birth control or the morning after pill) female minors may not receive abortions (or cross state lines to an abortion friendly state) they must tell their parents (which wasnt the case when I was younger)

What the HELL is wrong with you? I cant imagine HOW you think things are better today, unless its simply because you are male, and have NO concept of the reality for today's women. And the right wing wackos are rabid about eliminating Roe, because their ideal world has women at HOME and not cluttering up the schoolrooms or job market.

Btw: Family Court is one of the most misogynistic male bastions in our society.
I am VERY familiar with Family Court workings, both from the Court Clerk standpoint, from the Family Law Attorney Standpoint and from the Litigant standpoint.

Mostly silly male bashing by an elitist quasi feminist - nice One must wonder why you even bother to speak to men at all

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Hmmm... ya know- if it's a woman's body and a woman has the right to choose (I agree with those statements), then it's a woman's responsibility to keep herself in situations where she's not going to get pregnant (if that's what she chooses). If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should tell her partner that and make sure that the dude is using a condom and that she is using some form of birth control. Not all women can take birth control pills, but there are other forms of birth control out there.

She will NEVER agree with that - it is all the male's fault and women are blameless victims of society

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Hmmm... ya know- if it's a woman's body and a woman has the right to choose (I agree with those statements), then it's a woman's responsibility to keep herself in situations where she's not going to get pregnant (if that's what she chooses). If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should tell her partner that and make sure that the dude is using a condom and that she is using some form of birth control. Not all women can take birth control pills, but there are other forms of birth control out there.

those are very mature statements........unfortunately not all pregnant women are making mature decisions, and remember, it takes TWO to be responsible. if a guy refuses to use a condom, and the girl then says no, and the guy is *ready to go* do you think they are just going to take no for an answer? I dont....

by the way: the most effective form of birth control is the pill, all others drop in effectiveness by comparison, and therefore the risk of unplanned pregnancy is greater.....

my initial statement was that many (most?) pregnant women find themselves ALONE once they disclose their pregnancy to their partners, and for me, that is an even bigger issue. We wouldnt have a lot of the social problems/issues we have now if BOTH parents were required to be responsible, and the fathers couldnt just leave at the first sign of obligation....

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

those are very mature statements........unfortunately not all pregnant women are making mature decisions, and remember, it takes TWO to be responsible.

Yawn. Excuses, excuses.... It can't be a two way street. Either the woman takes responsibility for her body and the things that happen to and go inside her bodies or she doesn't. If a woman chooses to be irresponsible about her body than she has no one to blame for the consequences than herself. Ignorance is not an acceptable complaint against unintended consequences.

if a guy refuses to use a condom, and the girl then says no, and the guy is *ready to go* do you think they are just going to take no for an answer? I dont....

Sorry, that excuse is a cop-out and it doesn't work. If a woman stays with a guy who would refuse to wear a condom, she has no one to blame but herself. That kind of **** doesn't fly in the gay community, so women aren't off the hook either.

by the way: the most effective form of birth control is the pill, all others drop in effectiveness by comparison, and therefore the risk of unplanned pregnancy is greater.....

If women are concerned with being pregnant, they should get informed on their options. If they are not concerned about getting pregnant, then they shouldn't complain about it if they do.

my initial statement was that many (most?) pregnant women find themselves ALONE once they disclose their pregnancy to their partners, and for me, that is an even bigger issue. We wouldnt have a lot of the social problems/issues we have now if BOTH parents were required to be responsible.

Meh. Yeah, there are a lot of jerks out there. Does that absolve women of their responsibilities towards the bodies they own? Nope.

If BOTH parents were responsible than a man should have the right to deny his partner to have an abortion- somehow, I'm thinking you don't agree with this....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . my initial statement was that many (most?) pregnant women find themselves ALONE once they disclose their pregnancy to their partners, and for me, that is an even bigger issue. We wouldnt have a lot of the social problems/issues we have now if BOTH parents were required to be responsible, and the fathers couldnt just leave at the first sign of obligation....

I just think that is BS - I think most pregnancies are wanted by both. I mean millions of kids are born every year and I find it hard to believe that the majority of those were all the result of some now absent and formerly horny guy forcing himself on an unwilling and uninformed chick. I do think that happens though and that is sad.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Mostly silly male bashing by an elitist quasi feminist - nice One must wonder why you even bother to speak to men at all

She will NEVER agree with that - it is all the male's fault and women are blameless victims of society

Good luck, Jason.

[irishgrl]

Ignorance is not an acceptable complaint against unintended consequences.

I was referring to YOUNG women who are ignorant, and rash...and so sorry, but it IS a reason, even if you dont agree with it.

Sorry, that excuse is a cop-out and it doesn't work. If a woman stays with a guy who would refuse to wear a condom, she has no one to blame but herself. That kind of **** doesn't fly in the gay community, so women aren't off the hook either.

Well, the number of women who are RAPED is much higher than the number of MEN who are raped, I guarantee you.

If women are concerned with being pregnant, they should get informed on their options. If they are not concerned about getting pregnant, then they shouldn't complain about it if they do.

Birth control can fail. then what? if you take birth control to prevent a pregnancy and it doesnt work.......(which does happen) your argument falls flat.

Yeah, there are a lot of jerks out there. Does that absolve women of their responsibilities towards the bodies they own? Nope.

OK: I was married TWICE. Each time, my husbands requested that I stop taking the pill. Each time it took about a year to become pregnant. In ALL THAT TIME, neither husband said to me "I've changed my mind, Im not ready to raise a child" EACH TIME, when I became pregnant, the Husband LEFT. I received NO support from EITHER one. I raised my girls alone. I was the ONLY ONE WHO DID TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and I submit to you that women are FAR MORE likely to take responsibility for the babies than the men. As far as I am concerned, there are MOSTLY jerks out there.

If BOTH parents were responsible than a man should have the right to deny his partner to have an abortion- somehow, I'm thinking you don't agree with this

I think it would be poetic justice for a woman to go ahead and have the baby and then abandon the daddy/child, but ya know? women arent (for the most part) wired that way...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I was referring to YOUNG women who are ignorant, and rash...and so sorry, but it IS a reason, even if you dont agree with it.

I refuse to accept that any girl over the age of 12 does not know how to get pregnant. Thus, the term "ignorance" is inappropriate. They know good and well that no sex = no baby. I think any girl who does not use her own protection during consenual sex does so at her own risk.

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Well, the number of women who are RAPED is much higher than the number of MEN who are raped, I guarantee you. .

That is a little misleading as you know the statistics on males who are raped are woefully inadequate for a variety of reasons - as they are for women for that matter.

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Birth control can fail. then what? if you take birth control to prevent a pregnancy and it doesnt work.......(which does happen) your argument falls flat.

Well, I think there is a difference between trying and having it fail as opposed to a free for all and then "oops I am pregnant - poor me how did this happen - its all the jerk male's fault because it was a meaningless fling and surprise he is now nowhere to be found"