Supreme Court wades into Abortion issue AGAIN

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

if these protester's limited their activities to SPEECH alone, this would be a non issue. Unfortunately they do NOT limit their activity to speech alone (protected or otherwise) When patients are accosted, shoved, beat unconscious, then these nutjobs SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, but every case that broaches the subject of anti-abortion protesters seems to let these folks off seemingly without a scratch...in fact the ban on protesting has been lifted so that now protesters can be closer than ever as they exercise their FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS which can include blocking the doorway etc....this just makes me sick because at NO OTHER CLINIC do you have people interfering with patients or their caregivers

I may be wrong, but I have never heard of anyone beating anyone unconscious in such a situation that was not prosecuted. In fact, I seem to rememeber the prosecution of several people who bombed clinics, etc. So, I think that might be hyperbole

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

No - it is improper. Go read the statute and tell me how it possibly applies here. There is no racketeering - period. It is the exercise of free speech that if not peaceful - must be prosecuted under the appropriate law. Now, if they found a network in two states that was advocating specific violence or other illegal activity and there was a clear and provable pattern of that - I'd say fire away under RICO - but I am not sure they showed that here, though I read this case a long time ago.

and if the network was based on the internet? that asked its members to "go to your neighborhood Planned Parenthood clinic on such and such day and stand in front of the door and yell at the patients as they come in for their procedures.."
you get the idea....email action alerts are VERY common.........I wonder if they DO have evidence of this? Why else would the Appellate Court want to RETRY this under RICO unless there was some NEW aspect to develop?
I say, its still up to the court to decide improper.....since we arent privy to discovery, we really cant say.......

[strandinthewind]

a google of "prosecution violence abortion clinics" produces a bunch of articles on this - too many to list here

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

a google of "prosecution violence abortion clinics" produces a bunch of articles on this - too many to list here

I must be the only person on the PLANET who doesnt GOOGLE.........

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

and if the network was based on the internet? that asked its members to "go to your neighborhood Planned Parenthood clinic on such and such day and stand in front of the door and yell at the patients as they come in for their procedures.."
you get the idea....email action alerts are VERY common.........I wonder if they DO have evidence of this? Why else would the Appellate Court want to RETRY this under RICO unless there was some NEW aspect to develop?
I say, its still up to the court to decide improper.....since we arent privy to discovery, we really cant say.......

they would have to block access to the clinic (FACE ? ) or be openly violent or commit some other crime (or conspire to) for RICO to apply. Protesting in a peaceful and lawfu manner is not enough. I mean that is a double edged sword - there must be some protests you advocate - do you want that standard (the mere alerting of a protest) to be applied then

RICO is often asserted to circumnavigate the fourth amendment, which I suspect is why it was applied here. I just cannot abide that no matter my thoughts on the people it is being applied against. But, they could have enough to go forward with a valid RICO claim here, but that case would tread dangerously close to the freedom of speech/assembly concepts.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I must be the only person on the PLANET who doesnt GOOGLE.........

that explains a lot

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

that explains a lot

my research is every bit as good as YOURS my dear! Google seems like potluck if you ask me.....

AND: I am NOT talking about PEACEFUL protests, only violent or harassing ones.
as I said, these protests outside Abortion clinics are RARELY peaceful, this is a WAR folks, the fundies want control over women's bodies...and BY GOD, I am not going to stand by and say/do nothing.....

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

they would have to block access to the clinic (FACE ? ) or be openly violent or commit some other crime (or conspire to) for RICO to apply.

precisely. please RE-READ the original post, there HAS BEEN VIOLENCE. As well as clinic blocking. If that's what it takes, then RICO apparently applies.

Again, we will see what the freakin' MIB decide, but as I said, from what they've been handing down lately, I dont expect anything good for women's rights....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

precisely. please RE-READ the original post, there HAS BEEN VIOLENCE. As well as clinic blocking. If that's what it takes, then RICO apparently applies.

Again, we will see what the freakin' MIB decide, but as I said, from what they've been handing down lately, I dont expect anything good for women's rights....

Well, RICO was not really originaly put forth to address that - but it has been broadened to encompass it - which I object to. I do not think it is worth gutting the Fourth Amendment. I think law enforcement should prsecute them via the reg. law. I know you will never admit that because an abortion clinic is involved

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, RICO was not really originaly put forth to address that - but it has been broadened to encompass it - which I object to. I do not think it is worth gutting the Fourth Amendment. I think law enforcement should prsecute them via the reg. law. I know you will never admit that because an abortion clinic is involved

No, I agree that they should be prosecuted via normal channels, but if I read RICO rightly, there should have already been a related prosecution. Maybe the defendants WERE prosecuted via regular channels, I couldnt tell that from the article...

But here's the thing: I dont see how prosecuting anti-abortion protesters under RICO violates 4th Amendment at ALL! have these defendants been illegally searched or seized?

I also want to say that in my reading, I noticed that the author commented that one of the prime targets in these RICO searches is computer hard drives, therefore, maybe there has been some internet hanky panky going on? Just a thought...


finally, I have said three times now that I dont agree with unreasonable searches or seizures. I dont know if RICO is the answer or not. I dont have all the facts re: discovery or why the Appellate Court felt compelled to retry this under OTHER grounds. Hopefully the answer will become clear in time...