Greg!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

One of my students (a Nirvana fanatic) wrote a very convincing paper arguing that Courtney Love hired someone to kill Cobain and that he never intended to kill himself. I guess y'all will think I'm crazy for even suggesting it, but all I know about the situation is what I read in her paper, basically.

I've heard that theory, so I don't think you're crazy. My only problem is that Kurt had been playing chicken with death for a few months before he died. He O.D.ed a few times and had even gone into a coma once during a Hole tour. Plus, look at the lyrics. "When I swear that I don't have a gun, no I don't have a gun" or "He's the one who writes all are pretty songs and he likes to sing along and he likes to shoot his gun." In the end, there were signs. I wasn't surprised when it happened, though I was shocked.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by amber

I would use the phrase "played instruments" in only the very, very, loosest sense.

You would

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I've heard that theory, so I don't think you're crazy. My only problem is that Kurt had been playing chicken with death for a few months before he died. He O.D.ed a few times and had even gone into a coma once during a Hole tour. Plus, look at the lyrics. "When I swear that I don't have a gun, no I don't have a gun" or "He's the one who writes all are pretty songs and he likes to sing along and he likes to shoot his gun." In the end, there were signs. I wasn't surprised when it happened, though I was shocked.

Well, I just did some research on this and apparently there were no fingerprints found on the shotgun he killed himself with, which would be pretty impossible. He had taken a dose of heroin 3x the amount of a lethal dose which would have rendered him unconscious within seconds. He also had a valium type drug in his system. Also, the scene was neat as a pin and his hair appeared to have been combed (heresay). The PI that was hired by Courtney to find Kurt when he escaped rehab is still investigating his death because he is so convinced it was fishy. Also, when this PI told the police of evidence they should follow up on (was Kurt's hair combed? was there any residue on his hands?) they said case closed it's a suicide end of story without following up. So I can see why people are so fascinated by all of this. Even if he did commit suicide and that seemed obvious investigators should have scrutinized every piece of evidence, right? So the jury is still out IMO.

It's all here http://www.justiceforkurt.com/

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

But, honestly, by 1995 I really stopped paying attention to popular music altogether.

That's kind of how I feel. I guess I don't really care that much who brings us out of what era and how much better the new era is and all. I quit paying a whole lot of attention to popular music around 2000. It's been a bit of a slow process. There got to be fewer and fewer artists who were on VH-1 and MTV that I genuinely cared about. Right now I think there's one or two.

[GateandGarden]

Oh, and I meant to say thanks for the link, Suze.

[SteveMacD]

Man, if it's found that Courtney DID kill him, am I the only one who will be creeped out by "Gold Dust Woman," especially during "The Dance" video?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

He had taken a dose of heroin 3x the amount of a lethal dose which would have rendered him unconscious within seconds. He also had a valium type drug in his system.

That's what I always found suspicious, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Courtney did it.

Or maybe I'm just saying that because I like Hole.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by DeadliestPoison

Officially? Around 2002. A lot of people say they jumped the shark when Geri left, but they put out an album in November of 2001 (Election Day, actually). It's.. different, but I like it.

Now for a timeline. Awww, I'm a geek.

The ad in the newspaper was placed in 1994. That's when they had all the auditions (which are hilarious, I might add). Out of everyone who came, five girls were picked: Geri, Melanie C, Melanie B, Victoria, and Michelle Stephenson. They would form a band called Touch.

Michelle leaves to either pursue her education or because her mum had cancer -- I've heard both and I'm not sure which is more accurate.

Emma gets called in, and they all move into a house together in England to become a more coherent group as opposed to five girls from five different walks of life. They practiced there, ate there, slept there, fought there, etc. There are a good amount of demos that may or may not be from this era of the band. Sooo crazy. They weren't yet a "unit" at this point, all the girls were still doing their own thing, but you could see where they were headed.

They have a few shows for some record companies, and Simon Fuller ends up signing them to Virgin. In 1996, they change their name to the Spice Girls (I think it was Geri's idea -- it came out of an exercise routine, I think. They were going to call themselves "Spice" but there was a rapper in America called "Spice One" or something, so they went for "The Spice Girls").

In July of 1996, they release "Wannabe," and everyone goes crazy, etc. A magazine gives them the Scary/Baby/Ginger (Sexy)/Posh nicknames and they stick with it. "Say You'll Be There" is released, and in late 1996 "Spice," the debut album, is released. It was apparently the 13th highest-selling album of all time in England at some point! Woot.

In 1997, "Who Do You Think You Are" and "Mama" are released as a double A-side to benefit Comic Relief.

They do a few shows here & there, most notably one in Istanbul (advertised as their first concert). It was a Pay-Per-View thing and ended up being played on Fox Family ALL THE TIME. It was also released on VHS. Mmm, VHS. They did songs from "Spice," some new ones from "Spice World," and some b-sides. It was glorious.

So in autumn of 1997, they released the first single from "Spice World," "Spice Up Your Life." I remember it being a big deal on MTV at the time. The second/Christmas single was "Too Much," which had a really neat video. All the girls acted as a character in a film.. Victoria was Catwoman, Geri was Ilsa from Casablanca, Melanie B was Mad Max, Emma was that girl from Poltergeist, and Melanie C was in some Chinese film. Later, the video would have an alternate version with clips from Spice World, the Spice Girls movie.

"Spice World" (the album) was released toward the end of 1997 and ended up at #3. Aww, The Dance. It didn't sell quite as well as "Spice" had, but it's an awesome album. /personal opinion.

So they do the movie and all. That was a pretty big deal in England. I remember seeing it in theaters. Heee. That was fun.

A little after they released "Stop" as a single and in the middle of their tour in 1998, Geri stops showing up with the girls on TV shows. She says it's because of a "blazing row" or because of a stomach illness. Whatever, Geri. What apparently happened was Melanie B got in a fight with Geri and Geri just left. The statement is released in June of 1998 and MTV shows a bunch of Spice Girls clips and stuff. Geri finishes the statement with "I'll be back!"

The Spice Girls release their final single from "Spice World" called "Viva Forever," which is totally their best song ever. It was the last video of theirs to have Geri in it, although she's in doll form (the girls don't show up in the video aside from little fairy dolls made of tin. it's really pretty, actually). The video is only shown in the States as part of a VH1 special on the American tour. The girls go on tour without Geri and they rearrange their routine to fill in for Geri's vocals. A VHS of the tour was released (Live At Wembley) and a documentary about their stay in America is released (Spice Girls In America: A Tour Story).

After the tour, they cool it down a bit. By this time, a couple of the girls had experimented with solo stuff, namely Melanie C. As a foursome, they released "Goodbye" in 1998, which would end up on their 2001 album (and as yet final) "Forever." No Geri in the song, no Geri in the video. Instead, we got a pregnant Victoria and Melanie B.

So everyone goes solo. Melanie C releases "Northern Star," Melanie B releases "Hot," Emma releases "A Girl Like Me," and I'm not sure if Victoria released anything here or if it was a little later. Geri released her debut solo album, "Schizophonic" in 2001. Geri also writes an autobiography called If Only, which is actually a pretty good read.

In 2001, the girls get back together and go for a more urban, soulful sound. The demos from this era are AMAZING, and what we got was sort of bland. It's still decent, though. So "Forever" is released. "Holler" is on it, which was released as a double A-side with "Let Love Lead The Way." It didn't do so hot over here, but it did okay in England. Worldwide, though, it's considered a flop. Awrrr. <3

So the girls end it. Boooo. They all do more solo stuff, some get TV shows, Victoria becomes a baby factory, Melanie B gets divorced from her husband (she was Melanie G for a while), Emma... I don't really know what she did, since she's not my favorite. Geri was all over the place. Melanie C releases "Reason" and most recently "Beautiful Intentions." Geri releases "Scream If You Wanna Go Faster" and most recently "Passion." She writes ANOTHER autobiography (an "update") called Just For The Record.

Melanie B does some broadway work as Mimi in Rent in New York and she's working on her solo album right now. She wrote an autobiography called Catch A Fire.

Victoria's just weird. She has an album out (maybe two, I don't care). She wrote an autobiography. Etc.

Emma released "Free Me" a while ago. Fun album. She's apprently going to play Emma Frost in XMen 4! Fun times.

As of right now, there are talks of a Greatest Hits album, but they've been talking about that for ages. A while ago, there were rumours of a foruth album (there was even a tracklisting) and a ton of demos surfaced, like "Walking On Air" and "Do You Think About Me" as well as a couple from Touch and stuff. So the GH package might be the driving force behind this.

And now you know... the rest of the story.

Ho****. Did you write that, sweetie?

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

That's what I always found suspicious, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Courtney did it.

Or maybe I'm just saying that because I like Hole.

I do too. And the name of their album was "Live through this" and the song was pleading. She just seems too vulnerable to have that kind of intent.

There is also a rebuttal on that site pointing out that, although Kurt had 3x the lethal dose, there is such a thing as tolerance. This allows a regular user of a substance to ingest much larger quantities while remaining conscious than a new user could. I didn't actually read the whole rebuttal though.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

All this grunge hate! It wasn't the greatest era of music but I'm glad I squeezed into the last generation to have worthy musicial icons. Since grunge died there's been nothing in the mainstream music that the masses can follow with a conscience, in my opinion. The last slightly original popular music. And so what if they weren't masters of their instruments? As a whole they were probably better than the punk scene in that sense. I don't think music is just about being a speedy guitarist, but then you have the other extreme which is modern popular music that lacks not only great (any) musicians but originality, progression and a basic good sound. I show you my middle finger and put on some Pearl Jam.

I have to agree. I liked the grunge era, though some of it was to racaus (sp.?) for me. I also thought their videos marked a clear transition to really almost film noiresq. tidbits like the bee girl. Now and really since then and with few excpetions, it is all pre fab crap designed to produce one or two records and then see ya.

[Sapphire Girl]

Originally Posted by DeadliestPoison

They have a few shows for some record companies, and Simon Fuller ends up signing them to Virgin.

Would this be the same Simon Fuller who created American Idol?

A magazine gives them the Scary/Baby/Ginger (Sexy)/Posh nicknames

There was also Sporty (Melanie C.)

[hayley]

Originally Posted by DeadliestPoison

-_-. I hate myself for forgetting about her. She's my fayyybriiiitttt.

Aww, don't hate yourself, Emo Boy.

[Merf]

Originally Posted by hayley

Aww, don't hate yourself, Emo Boy.

Help me, Hayley! He tastes like emo sadness!

Greg, that's the second manifesto of Spice I've read from you. Have you ever considered going into journalism? I could totally see you working for Rolling Stone or something.

[SteveMacD]

Don't knock emo. I used to be in an emo-esq band. Actually, we were Emobilly. (j/k)

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Lux

All this grunge hate! It wasn't the greatest era of music but I'm glad I squeezed into the last generation to have worthy musicial icons. Since grunge died there's been nothing in the mainstream music that the masses can follow with a conscience, in my opinion.

Sheryl Crow I was iffy about her until I heard her duet with Emmylou Harris on the Flying Burrito Bros. song "Juanita" on the Gram Parsons tribute album. After that, I knew she was the real deal.