Why, Oh Why did Stevie turn down "These Dreams"?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

(claps hands) done and done. Next subject?

I agree. It's hard for us diehards to accept the fact that Debbie Harry [a.k.a. Blondie ] is much more recognizable as a superstar than Stevie Nicks. And your "Stevie who?" comment made me think about my own best friend who, upon learning the news that I am a huge F.M. fan said, "aren't they like Peter Paul and Mary?" She didn't even know F.M. much less Stevie Nicks. And this girl is 28!! I almost lapsed into a convulsion fit when she said that.

She knows who Debbie Harry and Blondie is, but somehow, Fleetwood Mac eludes her. I think it's a generational thing. Blondie is WAAAAAAY hipper with my generation (and the one previous) than Fleetwood Mac. Again, I know it's hard to fathom as we are rabid F.M. superfans but thems the facts.

Now what was this thread about again?

Bravo to you and Kate.

What I find more interesting when it comes to this silly Debbie vs. Stevie thing are their contributions to pop culture and music as a whole, and how they last to this day. I don't think there can be any denying that while Stevie was incredibly popular, she didn't exactly break new ground or leave an impression on music that we're still hearing the effects of today. Kate said it perfectly when she said Debs is an icon. Walk up to someone on the street and mention Blondie, more than likely someone will know the face of who you're talking about and know a song or three because what they brought to the music scene is still being heard today. Nowadays, it's less about who is more popular than it is about who affected music and our culture. I think it says something when one can walk into a Hot Topic in your local mall and purchase a tiny little skirt with Debbie's face and the Blondie logo plastered across the ass. Blondie has become cooler and hipper as the years have worn on and their contributions to the music we hear today are being praised more than ever. Even if Debbie's star faded as Stevie became more famous with the likes of Stop Draggin' and Stand Back, she and her band left a lasting impression that Stevie did not and probably never will.

Though I still find it hard to fathom that a 28 year old doesn't know who Fleetwood Mac is.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by dissention

Though I still find it hard to fathom that a 28 year old doesn't know who Fleetwood Mac is.

You and me both. She knows "of" them sorta. I'm sure she's heard a tune here and there on the radio but hadn't a clue who she was listening to. I know, I know, I was shocked. But not too much, I mean, she's one of those indie idiots who thinks that Belle and Sabastian hung the moon. Calling my best friend an idiot...imagine what I say about my enemies!?

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

I want to know why Stevie turned down "Big Balls". AC DC really got lucky.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Were you a fan then or are you using examples from the media in which I said they were trying to push Stevie as a star? I don't deny she was getting press coverage and getting the Rumours cover didn't hurt. That's not the same as saying she was a star with fans in general. If you were a fan then and remember her as the star, I wonder what part of the country you are from because even in her hometown of Phx, AZ, Stevie was not a name until her Dad got a concert venue where she played as a solo artist during the Wild Heart tour to benefit the City of Hope. My friends and I who were FM fans knew Stevie but a lot of us actually thought Stevie was making a mistake going solo. Just because she later became more recognizable doesn't mean she was the star of FM during the 70's. She wasn't. When she got with her solo agent (Azoff the great?) she worked the PR and her image bigtime but FM fans were not necessarily buying into it, either.

You're right on about this whole issue of Stevie being the "Star" of the band. No denying that she often got the most attention. But, in terms of the band's internal culture/dynamics, Stevie was just another member. Certainly Chris and Lindsey would not have considered her the star of the band....or put up with Diva behavior.

Stevie didn't join the band to be the star. In the course of history, she has always appeared very humble and grateful about her role in the band. Fleetwood Mac was/is a very delicate democracy.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by dissention

Though I still find it hard to fathom that a 28 year old doesn't know who Fleetwood Mac is.

Try working at a state university & asking 22 year old kids if they know FM. They almost never know who Mac orStevie are until I mention either GYOW, Don't Stop or Stand Back. The songs, they know, but not the artists.

Not sure if they know Blondie - I'll have to try asking that one next time.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

I think she turned it down because lyrically the song was everything that people in the music industry criticized her for being at the time. A better question would be why oh why didn't she turn down Sometimes it's a Bitch?

True. The lyrics tried too hard to capture the essence of Stevie. It veered too close to characature (how do you spell this word!!??). If she did that song it may have invited a lot of cynicism. Plus, I'm glad there is one less Stevie song that uses the word "DREAMS!."

The weird thing for me is, Bernie Taupin (Elton John's long-time lyricist) wrote that song. He really is one the greatest lyricists of all time.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

You and me both. She knows "of" them sorta. I'm sure she's heard a tune here and there on the radio but hadn't a clue who she was listening to. I know, I know, I was shocked. But not too much, I mean, she's one of those indie idiots who thinks that Belle and Sabastian hung the moon. Calling my best friend an idiot...imagine what I say about my enemies!?

Belle and Sebastian? Good cripes. I have mucho hate. Mucho, mucho hate.

I can understand not knowing Stevie because not a whole helluva lot of peeps do these days, but Fleetwood Mac? Nope, sorry.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

You're right on about this whole issue of Stevie being the "Star" of the band. No denying that she often got the most attention. But, in terms of the band's internal culture/dynamics, Stevie was just another member. Certainly Chris and Lindsey would not have considered her the star of the band....or put up with Diva behavior.

Well, the rest of the band put up with Lindsey's diva behavior.

[SapphireSister]

Ok on Stevie vs. Debbie - forget about who was the bigger star and pop icon blah blah blah, how about artistically? What are your thoughts on that? To me Stevie is so much more than a star or a pop icon. She is a true artist, gifted performer, vocalist, songwriter, and poet (amongst others). I don't know enough about Debbie to say if the same is true but from what I do know she is not nearly as accomplished in these arenas as SN so screw all the pop icon/name recognition sh*t. There is so much more that really matters to me and this is why Debbie Harry/Blondie will NEVER compare to Stevie in my book.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

At that same show didn't she rip out an amazing rendition of 90s classic, "Short Tort Man?"

And then Waddy stepped up for a rare solo vocal and sang "Sit On My Face Miss Stevie Nicks," by The Vapors.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Ok on Stevie vs. Debbie - forget about who was the bigger star and pop icon blah blah blah, how about artistically? What are your thoughts on that? To me Stevie is so much more than a star or a pop icon. She is a true artist, gifted performer, vocalist, songwriter, and poet (amongst others). I don't know enough about Debbie to say if the same is true but from what I do know she is not nearly as accomplished in these arenas as SN so screw all the pop icon/name recognition sh*t. There is so much more that really matters to me and this is why Debbie Harry/Blondie will NEVER compare to Stevie in my book.

If you want a true artist in every sense of the word, look no further than Miss Deborah Harry.

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by dissention

If you want a true artist in every sense of the word, look no further than Miss Deborah Harry.

As I said I don't really know enough about her but I've never known her to be an acclaimed songwriter with a huge collection of material like SN. Is she?

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

Well, the rest of the band put up with Lindsey's diva behavior.

No kidding.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

As I said I don't really know enough about her but I've never known her to be an acclaimed songwriter with a huge collection of material like SN. Is she?

About as acclaimed as someone with Sister Honey under their belt can be. I kid, I kid.

She's got as much material as Nicks, it's just that they're totally different artists musically. Stevie's a little bit of rock with an AC flair, Debbie has encompassed many different genres for most of her career. As I've said on many occasions, the reason I prefer Debbie to Stevie (and Lindsey to Stevie) is because her art has progressed considerably over the course of her career. She does not stick with one type of music and then say "That's good, I won't change anything from now on." She isn't the type of artist who sees what works and then does nothing but that. I respect that and that's the kind of stuff that gives me my kicks. When you look at Debbie's body of work, it's staggering that she's accomplished so much. Not many can claim that they introduced rap music to the world, or that they went from pop to being an acclaimed jazz and improvisational vocalist, etc. She's so brilliant that it's almost alien. Pop in an old Blondie record and it's obvious how before their time they were and how influential they were to music; it's eerie. Stevie's fabulous, but a continually growing artist she's not.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by dissention

Well, the rest of the band put up with Lindsey's diva behavior.

They had no other choice there. Who else was going to provide direction, produce them, and bang into shape Stevie's rough demos?