Stevie said "Mick" right nbefore Beauty and the Beast on Saturday

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree - but in that was her realtionship with Mick from her perspective - the two are not mutually exclusive - just like LB wrote GYOW about his feelings, but La Nicks is most def. in there. Though I think B&B is more about the movie with Mick as an afterthought.

Yeah, Stevie never really doesn't write about herself...and when she does, it's disastrous. (silver girl, Jane)

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by amber

Yeah, Stevie never really doesn't write about herself...and when she does, it's disastrous. (silver girl, Jane)

Bwahaha!! Couldn't be more true!!

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Interestingly, CM probably was the most reluctant as witnessed by the US tour and then no more, despite the other four wanting to continue

So much so that she wrote an incredibly ballsy song and put it on her solo album... "Johnny says come around if you dare...."

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

. . . In the mid 90's Stevie was in a lot of financial trouble.

I have not seen her balance sheet and neither have you, but to assume she was in trouble is a little naive. I mean maybe she dipped below 10 million - poor her

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

She was being sued for a few different matters and had IRS problems.

For a deduction of maybe a few thousand dollars for stage clothes and maybe $50,000 in legal fees all of which is deductible. I mean that seemingly is nothing in their world. So, I think that issue is a little moot

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Strangely, as a less than devoted fan of hers, I feel I understand her songs better than a lot of people who think she's not a real person. Too many fans see her only as a rock goddess who makes troubled people feel better, or an icon whose lot in life is to be worshiped and defended by strangers.

I personally think that one can be a devoted fan and keep things in perspective at the same time.

I see Stevie as a human being... as flawed and contradictory as the rest of us. That's part of my fascination with her, I guess... her ability to draw so many people in, and change lives, if you will... while still just being a person who screws up sometimes and make bad decisions, etc.

She's flawed and multi-dimensional, and, therefore, in my eyes she's endlessly fascinating.

But that's also the reason I give her a lot of slack... not because I think she's an "untouchable goddess," but because she IS human.
Look around at the comments made about her here on a daily basis... how she should dress, how she should sing, how she should write, who she should get to produce her albums, which songs she should do on stage... that's a lot for anyone to live up to. I know I certainly wouldn't want to even try.

For that, I give her a lot of credit... and why I try not to harp on it when she does something I'm not head over heels for.
No one can live up to our every expectation.

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree to an extent - but it is your persistent unwillingness to admit that LB needed then just as much and without La Nicks - that reunion would have been dead in the water. She was and still is, right or wrong, the first thought of most when they think of FM, no matter the musical talent of LB or CM, or even more importantly the three/five I guess I just think you think that La Nicks was lucky to get them when they were all in fact lucky then to get each other. Interestingly, CM probably was the most reluctant as witnessed by the US tour and then no more, despite the other four wanting to continue

Why are you always telling me what I think? Where did I say he didn't need them, or even her? I said he didn't need to do the reuinion. I think he wanted to do it, jmho. You just can't deal with anything I say about Stevie needing his help like she doesn't want to admit she needs it either.

Through my own experience as a fan since the 70's, the average fan such as me who liked the band before her solo career, we're not all that captivated by Stevie or her witchy ways. That element is small compared to the millions of us who bought the records for the music. Hardly any of these fans are internet message board junkies unless they work on the computer like me, and fewer lifelong FM fans are interested in Stevie than you will ever accept unless I get them to take an online poll. Most Mac fans of hers before her solo career, especially straight males, don't follow her now because their fandom was based on diggin' her looks. They were attracted by her sex appeal. Many men think she's lost that, though I disagree. Those fans missed out by not being in Vegas last Wed. lol! Like the other lady who doesn't know why she's posting here, I often feel out of place being an old broad who got into the music for other reasons besides the drama. I never say LB is better or Stevie is not talented, but you always assume I am against her because I don't worship at the altar. Hey, don't I get any points for all my accolades about her stint in Vegas?

[EDIT]
BTW, not to sound like a know it all, but I do know more than I'd like to about her financial trouble. It was written about quite a bit in the 90's. Please don't tell me to get you quotes or look up articles. I showed you what she said about BATB and that's my fishing expedition for today. If you don't want to take my word for it, you can look it up yourself. Stevie's financial troubles were well convered in the local press including the stuff about the lady who got herself in with Stevie and her Mom and was swindling people and posing as Stevie. That was not pretty.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Why are you always telling me what I think? Where did I say he didn't need them? You just can't deal with anything I say about Stevie needing his help like she doesn't want to admit she needs it either.

I should say, more appropriately - my impression from your comments - I apologize for the assertion I know what you think - the former is what I meant

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Through my own experience as a fan since the 70's, the average fan who liked the band before her solo career, were not all that captivated by Stevie or her witchy ways.

Perhaps true - but I suggest the fan craziness suggests many, many were - I mean even Mick touches on this in his book I mean people started dressing like her by Rumors and by Tusk she was being courted for solo stuff, which suggests a following as they are loathe to throw money at an also ran

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

I never say LB is better or Stevie is not talented, but you always assume I am against her because I don't worship at the altar.

I guess I just get that impression - AND - I truly enjoy hearing your point of view - though I may disagree

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Hey, don't I get any points for all my accolades about her stint in Vegas?

TONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On edit - I know you know this, but I truly like discussing this with you and though I am sarcastic for humor - I mean only respect - why o why did we not get hammered together

[EnchantedStorms]

and the people like Steph and Brit and Kelly and Angela and Kelly K.....friends I never would have met if not for them. Friends that I will treasure long after they are gone.

You've managed to drag me out, Suz...imagine that. But anyway...your whole post... ITA...but then you knew that already. Can I throw my fifty bucks in too?



~Angela

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

. . .

[EDIT]
BTW, not to sound like a know it all, but I do know more than I'd like to about her financial trouble. It was written about quite a bit in the 90's. Please don't tell me to get you quotes or look up articles. I showed you what she said about BATB and that's my fishing expedition for today. If you don't want to take my word for it, you can look it up yourself. Stevie's financial troubles were well convered in the local press including the stuff about the lady who got herself in with Stevie and her Mom and was swindling people and posing as Stevie. That was not pretty.

I know - but you are talking about small potatoes (at most $500,000 and that is really pushing it) when FM GH sold like 5 million records which made her at least that and probably a lot more not counting Timespace which was essentially a reissue like all GH things I guess I just have worked in the legal and accounting fields too long to think that someone on that level would flinch too hard at $500,000, at the way, way most, when she spent a million to make TOSOTM (based on the rental of the castle )

On edit - I do think, however come 1996 - she was poorer than she was in the 80's but poor on that level is way different than destitute maybe I have worked around and for really rich people too long

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

On edit - I know you know this, but I truly like discussing this with you and though I am sarcastic for humor - I mean only respect - why o why did we not get hammered together

I'm sorry we didn't get together because I think you would have been pleasantly surprised by my reaction to Stevie in Vegas.

I've changed a few of my opinions, and how I wish we could have discussed Wed.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

I'm sorry we didn't get together because I think you would have been pleasantly surprised by my reaction to Stevie in Vegas.

I've changed a few of my opinions, and how I wish we could have discussed Wed.

I know - I called and then you called and I called- but it was impossible to hear in CP. Strangely enough, we could have been standing next to each other and not even known it

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I personally think that one can be a devoted fan and keep things in perspective at the same time.

I see Stevie as a human being... as flawed and contradictory as the rest of us. That's part of my fascination with her, I guess... her ability to draw so many people in, and change lives, if you will... while still just being a person who screws up sometimes and make bad decisions, etc.

She's flawed and multi-dimensional, and, therefore, in my eyes she's endlessly fascinating.

But that's also the reason I give her a lot of slack... not because I think she's an "untouchable goddess," but because she IS human.
Look around at the comments made about her here on a daily basis... how she should dress, how she should sing, how she should write, who she should get to produce her albums, which songs she should do on stage... that's a lot for anyone to live up to. I know I certainly wouldn't want to even try.

For that, I give her a lot of credit... and why I try not to harp on it when she does something I'm not head over heels for.
No one can live up to our every expectation.

Excellent, excellent post.

It's so funny that many people think that all fans of Stevie's are chiffon-head fruitcakes who see her as a flawless, untouchable goddess. We're not and she's not. I think many of us are rational, logical people, who admire her as an artist, but realize she is as human as the rest of us.

Sure, in fun, I mention things I don't care for (uh, Silver Girl, anyone? One more rendition of Dreams live?). But, hey man, I'm not perfect either. The sheer amount of music and words and happiness she has given me for the 18 years I have loved her far outweighs my minor disappointments. We're hardest on those we love. I think maybe it's just because we care so damned much.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

Excellent, excellent post.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by catinthedark

We're hardest on those we love. I think maybe it's just because we care so damned much.

That, and some people are just terminally crabby.

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by Rumour0323

Aye Carumbah.....you guys...if you have hung in there with me you must just be ready to puke. I really am sorry and I thank you for letting me get this off my chest. I promise....this will be the last of my sickening tirades. I just wanted to put it out there for me...to just say thank you for the music....and that I get it and if it matters that one person does....I do. And it has meant more to me than words could ever say.


"There is no Beauty.....Without my Beast!"

Thanks for everything you said. I appreciate all your views. Please post more often so I don't have to. Sometimes it seems I'm the only one who sees things from an older fan's viewpoint. I think people in our generation who were fans while it was all happening are stunned that the drama's still going on, despite the fact we would have been buying the music all along, nonetheless. That alone makes me think there's more to the drama than I once thought, or ever cared about. I just hope it doesn't cost us music cuz I'm selfish about that. lol! I've always been PO'd that the drama has cost us good music rather than resulted in it, but I think that's a minority view. I've been on this board for a few years but only posted a lot since the SYW tour. It seems people who are fans from the 70's are out of place on the boards, but I try to pop in now and then to give my 2 cents from another viewpoint. Thanks for doing likewise.

I think she's telling us good-bye....

I agree with this thing you said above. Everything I saw in Vegas points in that direction, but I can't be the one to say so because I'll get my ass flamed for it. I'm not a true enough fan of her's according to people who get upset by my posts, although I feel I'm a bigger fan of her as a person, rather than as an icon, hence I never rush the stage or ask for her autograph even with many many opportunities given to do so.

.

[Kelly]

I completely agree with Stevie "saying goodbye". Vegas was just one of the reasons I feel this way....Alot of things point in this direction...but I cannot bring it up here or I will be flamed! It is difficult to admit or accept that at some point Stevie may want to move on with her life and do different things. There will be replies along the lines of "this is what she loves to do" and "she needs the music, yada yada". "She said she was doing another album"....etc etc. Things change in peoples lives. Priorities change. Things that used to be important suddenly look less and less significant. Stevie has acknowledged having a difficult time with 9/11...perhaps she looked at her life and realized she had lots of people around her but felt lonely? Sometimes things need to be sacrificed to make things work. No one wants to admit or accept things about this solo tour that are so glaringly obvious. People still believe and will continue to believe that she is touring this summer because she wants to perform for her fans! I know she enjoys performing but she hates travelling and this tour is not about performing. Period.
For me, so much is about reading between the lines with Stevie.
She made alot of "statements" in Vegas for those who cared enough to listen. Instead, some focused on the inconsequential like the video screens or her Reeblecks or the Jim Ladd comments.

I agree and have heard about Stevie's financial issues in the 90's. Some won't accept it, no matter how true it may be. I mean she got royalty checks..that should take care of things..right? She signed a contract to do eight, I think eight, solo albums...so financially successful or whether she wanted to or not, she was obligated to. She did apparently "want" to do TISL but now? Look at Lori's most recent comments..look at the Greatest Hits debaucle for that answer.

I do not think BaTB is about Mick. It is about Stevie. Stevie was/is admitting to someone that perhaps she needs to change. The movie touched a nerve with Stevie because she saw parallels to what she was going through in her own life at that time. Was Mick the man who wanted her to change? Did Mick nearly die from grieving when SHE left HIM? (slightly dramatic Steves..but you get my point?) Mick was a convenient after thought. That Vegas performance was not for or about Mick..she was not "speaking" to Mick...... Throwing Mick into the mix years ago made it easier..nothing to explain, no awkward questions about why in 79/80/81 she was having these feelings. Apparently it worked as many of you still think that song was written about her feelings for Mick. That is cool as I think Stevie was aiming for a certain portion of her fans in Vegas anyway.

As difficult as it will be to say goodbye to Stevie someday, I want her to find peace and happiness, something she really never has. I want her to have someone who loves her to grow old with. Her entourage, Karen, Cory, Sheryl, Chris, Lori, etc...will not fulfill her as she lives out her life. Those people earn a living through Stevie..she is an entity to some of them. I know what I have heard and I know what I feel in my heart and soul and something is different with Stevie. She was one sexy, hot Mama on Wednesday night and I saw true bliss in her eyes. It was not for the fans groveling at her feet.