Stevie said "Mick" right nbefore Beauty and the Beast on Saturday

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

She didn't fully realize what it meant to be on the receiving end of that traumatic experience until it happened to her.

Because she was the one used to ending the relationships citing the excuse they couldn't deal with her being a rock and roll star and being away, etc. (a cop-out because she likes to sabotage her relationships for arts sake). Not that i'm saying some of them couldn't, but let's face it, generally the people she dated ran in the same circles as she did. They know the life. There is only one person that had an incredibly profound impact on her life in terms of relationships that openly could not deal with her being in the limelight...years before she decided to pen this song. The movie description, "....breaking his heart a little more each day with her increasingly cruel taunts in the face of his love. " It wasn't Mick. IMO, that's Lindsey for the fact that he was possesive AND wanted to be needed by her. They came into this together and he had to watch her succeed without him. He made her songs beautiful and when she went solo, he had to watch her do it on her own. I think there was a reason why this movie struck a cord with her and not necessarily because it's a beautiful story...because it's relatable. Just my .02

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Jason, once and for all stop saying I think LB is a bigger star than SN. I've never said it and I never will. He isn't, never has been, and never will be . . . .

Then I stand corrected and apologize

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Precisely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is, simply put, an idiot.

I agree - but my issue with all of your statements in this area are that LB somehow saved La Nicks with The Dance when in the relative context of it all, he needed her star power, not matter how faded then, more than she needed his. But, they BOTH needed FM then, but she still as a larger star brought more to the table really for them all - again she was, right or wrong, so synonomous with FM for so long that it just begs the question. AND - I know CM had the most hits, etc., but La Nicks was and is instantly recognizeable - albeit mostly because of FM. I will never think differently

On edit - La Nicks IMO has always needed LB on many levels and when he was not in her life in whatever way, she faded But, the fact remains that as washed out as she was, she was still getting offers a la Twisted - which she ran to him for - thus the yin and the yang that is them

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

On edit - La Nicks IMO has always needed LB on many levels and when he was not in her life in whatever way, she faded But, the fact remains that as washed out as she was, she was still getting offers a la Twisted - which she ran to him for - thus the yin and the yang that is them

You hit the nail on the head. I've always known you had it in you

[catinthedark]

Really, in the end, why does this matter so much?

The reality is, we'll never know who would have made it and who wouldn't have had Mick and Fleetwood Mac not come calling. Some people think Lindsey was the talent behind BN, some think it was Stevie, some think both are equally talented. Who's to say someone wouldn't have heard Stevie singing one day and said, we want to sign you and only you. Who's to say Lindsey wouldn't have been invited to join a band that would be huge, and that they wouldn't have said, "the girl, too? No thanks."

If Fleetwood Mac hadn't come along, who knows what would have happened? not a single one of us.

Both Stevie and Lindsey are immensly talented. They have different and unique gifts; they clearly complement each other, and no one else complements either of them as well. Some would say Lindsey is better with Stevie, and Stevie is better with Lindsey. Some would say each is talented enough on his or her own. It all comes down to our own personal tastes. Some of us love Stevie's mysticism and romanticism. Some of us don't. Some of us love Lindsey's raw, powerful guitar, some of us don't. Some of us think he made Stevie's songs, some of us love her stark piano demos.

It's not a competition. In this world of millions of want-to-be stars, only a select few make it (and back in the 70s, it was actually based on a little thing called talent). They made it. They made it HUGE. Who cares who made who, or who's bigger? It's so irrelevent.

[Rumour0323]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Jason, once and for all stop saying I think LB is a bigger star than SN. I've never said it and I never will. He isn't, never has been, and never will be. Like Suzanne said, that's not my point. Since the discussion has drifted somewhat from the topic of the thread, and you like info based on quotes by or about Stevie, read this bit of discussion about BATB she talked about circa 1981 in RS. People will decide for themselves what that song really means. I usually don't know how to dig up the quotes many fans go by since I only know what my views are based on my memory as a longtime Mac fan, not as a SN fan who thinks her life started with her solo career. I never read this article from RS before today when I went looking for something she's said about the song before she started talking about Mick being the inspriration. Well, here it is. Strangely, as a less than devoted fan of hers, I feel I understand her songs better than a lot of people who think she's not a real person. Too many fans see her just a rock goddess who makes troubled people feel better or who's lot in life is to be someone worshiped and defended by strangers. People who saw her performances in Vegas will likely see what I see in that song. Here's what she said in 1981:

Stevie says that her favorite fairy tale is Beauty and the Beast. She loved the fable as a child, but when she saw the Jean Cocteau film rendition in later years, her fascination was cemented. She'll recount her version of the yarn at the drop of a hat, claiming that, at the end of the fable, "Beauty became the Beast, and he became the beautiful one."

The story line, as Stevie tells it, concerns the plight of a sweet-natured woman named Beauty, the youngest of three otherwise repellent sisters, who volunteers to become a captive angel in the Beast's castle after her father incurs his wrath by plucking one of his prized roses. Beauty rides to her palatial prison on a magic white horse sent by the Beast and settles into a grotesque lifestyle wherein she spurns the affections of her gentlemanly captor, breaking his heart a little more each day with her increasingly cruel taunts in the face of his love.

When Beauty learns her father is dying, the Beast allows her to go to him, but warns that if she does not return by the seventh day, he will expire from despair. On the eighth day, she leaves her dead father and venal sisters and rushes back to the castle to find that the Beast is done for. In his last breath, he says that all a beast who loves her can do is die for her.

there are several more paragraphs to the article and then it ends with this last passage:

Sitting across from Stevie as she dries her eyes and slips back into here and now, I can think of only one appropriate question.

"In your version of Beauty and the Beast, Beauty finally understands that there are difficult choices to make in this world. Knowing her fate, if you were her, what would your decision have been?"

"I would have chosen the Beast," she says softly. "Absolutely."


Does anyone really believe Stevie sees Mick as a beautiful person for dumping her for her friend and leaving her heartbroken? I'm sure that was somewhat of a wake-up call for a woman who didn't fully realize what it meant to be on the receiving end of that traumatic experience until it happened to her. I also don't think Mick was a first in that regard either, but for anyone who knows the story of BATB, without even reading this article, the heartbreak of the female character in the story comes from knowing she hurt somebody else who deserved better than what her choices resulted in when she left him. They both suffered but it was too late to undo what had been done, in the fairy tale, anyway. Over and out.

Kudo's....that is all I can say to you Glitter. I think I've said this to you once before somewhere else, that sometimes I question just what the heck I am doing...at 48 years old on a message board, reading about two people that yes, did have a part in the soundtrack of my life. But still, at the end of the day...really?

I am not good at keeping track of posts and threads and whatnot and quite frankly this board terrifies me, hence my 7 posts in almost two years...BUT I somehow feel the need to finish out this point I have felt compelled to make for the last few months and then I will slither away.

One of the most endearing things I have read over the last two years was from a poster just this week. I believe it was in the.... "Exchanges with Stevie thread" ...this person...forgive me... I don't remember if it was a man or a woman but whomever it was, was waiting with great enthusiam...for Stevie to make her way to them, during the EO17 walk, so that they could attempt to convey to her, in the 3 seconds of her time that they would receive, what she means to them. (The same thought I am quite certain running thru the mind of everyone standing alongside of them.) This person waited I am sure, with great anticipation and fear, we all know that in that moment, no matter how good our intentions may seem it nevers comes out the way you hear it in your head. This person finally was left with the simple and heartfelt expression of something along the lines of....Thank you Stevie....and I love you....I love you.... to which Stevie replied.... "I know." And I... in reading that....think for the first time I started to understand just what it was that I come back here looking for. Because in reading that response from her....I know that she gets it. I just hope that she knows that we do too.

I love Fleetwood Mac.... Rumours....takes me right back to beach the first time I fell in love at 19.....everytime I hear it. I get really pissed at Lindsey when he waxs on that the success of Rumours was based largely on the soap opera going on within the band. Bull****!! I had no idea who Lindsey Buckingham was or Stevie Nicks. I came to know them once I bought the album of course and read the liner notes and looked at the pretty pictures but beyond that....Nah. I didn't buy Cream magazine or Tiger Beat I just liked the music. We didnt have the internet or MTV...I kept buying their records but must admit. Once Lindsey left the band that was it for me as well. It just was not the same with out him. Bored yet? I know... me too so yada yada yada.....skip ahead 20 years ok 27 years....Christ I'm old....and I am walking thru the living room one day and my kids are watching MTV and like alot of you here.... I see Stevie.....little whirling blonde dervish that she is.... wailing on Lindsey during Silver Springs. I stop.. I look.... is that Stevie Nicks? And Lindsey? When did he come back....hmm. This was 2003 by the way...forgot to mention that. So to say I had missed the boat doesn't even begin to cover it. They had come back and left again.....while I was living in Redneck Heaven with my Garth Brooks/Nelly/Britney Spears....oh yeah and Linkin Park ...lovin husband and kids...(same guy I fell in love with at 19 to Rumours btw....for those of you keeping track.) .....mkay....so. I turn on the computer I never use, never even turn on and type in Fleetwood Mac. WELL....who knew. So I began to educate myself. I googled and I searched and I somehow wound up here!!!! Read all I could devour here and then made my way to other lands. The BN board...Burnish.....and all the other great boards. The dedication and care put into these things astounded me. I had no idea what the hell an avatar was or a message board. Along the way I read and read and read and bought every album any of them have done and wound up falling in love with them all over again...but I must admit she touched my soul. I don't diefy Stevie not one bit. I think the truth.... if we could even begin to imagine it....would curl our hair. But you know what... she doesn't expect us to. The thing I love about Stevie is there are no apologies. She made her bed.....slept in it and made it up in the morning. She would be the first one to tell you. Don't feel sorry for me. I've had a great life. She would also be the first one to tell us, and I really believe that they both would, that the arguments that get repeated ad nauseum on these boards are pointless. If we had all the real dirt and not what we assume is their life because we've managed to glean it from the 500 or so articles we have floating around, we would see a completely different story. I think that as glitter has said or as I interpret what I think she has said before that...all of it is true and none of it is true. Beauty and the Beast is about Mick because he is in the video from Red Rocks? No....he's in the video from Red Rocks because he went out on the road to round her ass up, and get her to come back into the studio for Tango so they could keep the cash cow, going. And I'm cool with that. This is a business. But can you even begin to imagine being held accountable for something you said or did 20 years ago. While you were coked out of your head in the middle of a world tour, when your best friend in the world was dying. Or when the love of your life is sitting across from you with her man of the moment beside her and all you want to do is die? No you can't. Because to us... they are Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham....multi-millionaire rock stars... who can't possibly have anything to complain about. Tragic smagic, you fly in lear jets to Paris for Dinner.....you live in a house overlooking the sea....get the hell over it right?

And we wrap it all up in neat little bows. Gypsy is about Robin. No hell it's not. Lindsey is the Gypsy she left behind. Landslide is about Lindsey.....duh! I'm with Nancy on this one...Ithink just about every song she has ever written is about Lindsey. Period. End of Story. He is the muse. He is he great love....he is the one she would have given up her whole damn career for. Joe Walsh??? Rupert??? Give me a friggin break. No way.

"Lindsey...Come...must be about Anne Heche right?" Because as all heterosexuals know.....gay people don't ....well you know....and to further cement it.....the part about putting God away, is a direct reference to what Anne said about God.....ummm...a year after you wrote the song? "Ummm, yes that's right." And Peacekeeper....."It's about the brutilzation of a love affair."....(the one I had with said Peacekeeper.) I know my argument is the classic shipper drivel....that you all abhor so much. But what I think I found in 2003, and have spent the last two years contemplating, is for one thing Stevie was right, in what she told Jim Ladd a few weeks ago....great tragedy does lead to great art. The reason her music, and his too for that matter, touches the depths of my soul is because, I can feel in my bones just what glitter posted in the last paragraph of that post. That the reality of it all is that Stevie knows she paid the ultimate price. It is the overlapping theme of most of her songs...."If I had my life to live over,I would never dream"...."I took the greatest fall, I can't accept her"....."Love is...knowing you won't let go, watching you go".....and on and on. So feel sorry for her? No....but do I believe with all of my heart that if she had it to do all over again that she would choose the Beast? Absolutley. Music is like oxygen to me....I respond to it more than any other medium or stimulus... save my children. I listen to the notes and the words and I treasure the singer songwriters the most, because we get to see inside their souls. The gift of their music, (SnL's and FM) to my life is immeasurable, as is the music of several other artists I treasure. But if I ever got the chance to stand at the side of the stage and take her hand for 3 seconds I would love to ask HER....Stevie are you happy?

The reason I am running on and on here, is I think I got my answer this week, in the pages of these threads. The Stevie Nicks I am reading about last week in Las Vegas, is alive again, vibrant, and at 57 years old more beautiful than ever. She is in love and in lust...and looking to me like. if she would have had a few more days to get the courage up, it would have all come spilling out of her all at once, instead of an ad lib here and a fade out lyric there. You guys lining the front row of that stage are her people. And I think she was trying to tell you something. And if you would take a few minutes to stop bitching about the set list and the tennis shoes and LISTEN.....you would have gotten the message. You guys love her..... It's why you pay $1000's of dollars at the drop of a hat to fly across the nation to see her. Now I ask you....would you do that for your Uncle Joe, if he broke his foot? Mmmm..Nope. I doubt it. I think..... and my Fifty bucks is riding on it....that she has gone back for the Beast and this time she is not going to let go. "I'vvvvvvvveeeeee Changed Baby!!!!".....and I think she's telling us good-bye....She's going back to the castle before he dies.

I hope that he will be able to convince her after a suitable rest this fall....that she needs to come out and give us the final chapter of their story....and make a boat load of money for that nice cooshy retirement home they will need. I know I will be spending all of my savings, to be at her feet every chance I get to watch it all go down. And I don't care if it's in the ugly cardigan and the frankenboks and she needs 15 back up singers to hit the high notes. I just want one more chance to see a smile on her face...... a peace come over his.....and to say thank you for the music.....and the people like Steph and Brit and Kelly and Angela and Kelly K.....friends I never would have met if not for them. Friends that I will treasure long after they are gone. I love Glitters posts and she is responsible for getting me riled up thru no fault of her own.....because I love that she stays true to the truth....not the fantasy....and yes.... I see the irony...no need to point it out. I live in the airey fairy castle right next door to Stevie I realize that. I don't care if Jason and Diss go fourteen rounds over who is the hak and who the crybaby. But I do care.....ALOT....that the 19 year old girl, or boy for that matter, that finds themselves inexplicably drawn to the saga of Stevie and Lindsey and makes their way to these boards, as they do every day, doesn't think that it is all just a cliche. That this type of love couldn't possibly exist. That is why I started the argument up with you again today Jason....Why not now?....Why not the day to day.....they have certainly weathered far worse. Yes, she did X to him, and he did Y to her....the greater lesson I hope is that it wasn't all for naught. Even 50 somethings can learn from their mistakes and you don't have to have all figured out by the time you're 25. Just strive every day to figure it out and make it right.

Aye Carumbah.....you guys...if you have hung in there with me you must just be ready to puke. I really am sorry and I thank you for letting me get this off my chest. I promise....this will be the last of my sickening tirades. I just wanted to put it out there for me...to just say thank you for the music....and that I get it and if it matters that one person does....I do. And it has meant more to me than words could ever say.


"There is no Beauty.....Without my Beast!"

[Johnny Stew]

I don't agree that "Beauty And The Beast" is about Lindsey.
Nor do I really think that it's about Mick.

Someone can inspire a song, without said song being about them.
Maybe Mick was the guy who said, "Stevie, you love that movie so much -- why don't you write a song about it?"

Under those circumstances, it would be written "for" Mick, but not necessarily "about" him.

The rest, is up for interpretation.
And maybe, just maybe, it's about Lindsey AND Mick. AND Don Henley. AND some guy we don't even know (the guy up in Aspen, perhaps?).

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

Really, in the end, why does this matter so much?

The reality is, we'll never know who would have made it and who wouldn't have had Mick and Fleetwood Mac not come calling. Some people think Lindsey was the talent behind BN, some think it was Stevie, some think both are equally talented. Who's to say someone wouldn't have heard Stevie singing one day and said, we want to sign you and only you. Who's to say Lindsey wouldn't have been invited to join a band that would be huge, and that they wouldn't have said, "the girl, too? Okay."

If Fleetwood Mac hadn't come along, who knows what would have happened? not a single one of us.

Both Stevie and Lindsey are immensly talented. They have different and unique gifts; they clearly complement each other, and no one else complements either of them as well. Some would say Lindsey is better with Stevie, and Stevie is better with Lindsey. Some would say each is talented enough on his or her own. It all comes down to our own personal tastes. Some of us love Stevie's mysticism and romanticism. Some of us don't. Some of us love Lindsey's raw, powerful guitar, some of us don't. Some of us think he made Stevie's songs, some of us love her stark piano demos.

It's not a competition. In this world of millions of want-to-be stars, only a select few make it (and back in the 70s, it was actually based on a little thing called talent). They made it. They made it HUGE. Who cares who made who, or who's bigger? It's so irrelevent.

I know and agree - but it just bugs me when people imply that La Nicks would have been nothing - thus, the continued argument

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know and agree - but it just bugs me when people imply that La Nicks would have been nothing - thus, the continued argument

Quite honestly I think they each would have been successful in their own right, even if they had never met.

They had the talent and they had the drive.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Quite honestly I think they each would have been successful in their own right, even if they had never met.

They had the talent and they had the drive.

I think so, too. Although, cripes, I think how well they sang together (and with miss Christine) is like, a million times contributory to their success. In my head, a lot of the props I give Lindsey are just for the fact of being able to sing harmonies so beautifully with someone with the likes of Stevie's strange voice...

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by dissention

I was discussing the time when The Dance rolled around. You know, the time when they needed each other to make money and possibly further their career.

This is also what I was talking about when I said he pulled her ass out of the fire in '97. He didn't need or want to get back into the band situation. You said you wouldn't do this for very long...FFG He did it because the record industry people knew FM was the draw and they wanted to cash in. They put the screws to him to do it and I'm sure Mick did so as well since SN admitted she would only do it if LB did it. LB did not need to do it for the money if we are to believe what Stevie says, (which I often do not...lol) He had no financial problems but I'm sure he wanted to get his music out and had to give the reunion consideration in order to do that. LB was using people like they all were, including Stevie, but she really needed the Dance to turn her career around for financial and personal reasons. IMO, he did pull her ass out of the fire and I think she knows it. People always assume because she's such a star her solo career brought her wealth and security, among other things such as personal happiness. In the mid 90's Stevie was in a lot of financial trouble. She was being sued for a few different matters and had IRS problems. No matter how many people are in love with her solo carrer, many won't ever believe she doesn't make money from it unless she shows her balance sheet, which she won't. People will also never believe her solo career hasn't brought her much happiness even with all her success, unless she says so herself, and she won't.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know and agree - but it just bugs me when people imply that La Nicks would have been nothing - thus, the continued argument

I don't feel that La Nicks would have been nothing. However, it's difficult to look back objectively and pose the question, "what if?"

Cat, I agree with your post 100% and I do believe it's possible to see Stevie and Lindsey as equals in their contributions to a timeless band. Funny thing is, it seems as though Lindsey and Stevie have put their competitiveness on the shelf as far as their working relationship on SYW is concerned yes as fans, people are always pitting the two against each other.

Suzanne, I made it through your entire post (without puking ) and all I have to say is, "at least i'm...trying to change..."

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I don't agree that "Beauty And The Beast" is about Lindsey.
Nor do I really think that it's about Mick.

Someone can inspire a song, without said song being about them.
Maybe Mick was the guy who said, "Stevie, you love that movie so much -- why don't you write a song about it?"

Under those circumstances, it would be written "for" Mick, but not necessarily "about" him.

The rest, is up for interpretation.
And maybe, just maybe, it's about Lindsey AND Mick. AND Don Henley. AND some guy we don't even know (the guy up in Aspen, perhaps?).

As I said in another thread, Stevie wrote that song about herself.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

. . . IMO, he did pull her ass out of the fire and I think she knows it. People always assume because she's such a star her solo career brought her wealth and security, among other things such as personal happiness. . . .

I agree to an extent - but it is your persistent unwillingness to admit that LB needed then just as much and without La Nicks - that reunion would have been dead in the water. She was and still is, right or wrong, the first thought of most when they think of FM, no matter the musical talent of LB or CM, or even more importantly the three/five I guess I just think you think that La Nicks was lucky to get them when they were all in fact lucky then to get each other. Interestingly, CM probably was the most reluctant as witnessed by the US tour and then no more, despite the other four wanting to continue

On edit - of course La Nicks' solo career has made her money (though she sure can spend it) and has brought her happiness - why would she continue it if it had not.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

As I said in another thread, Stevie wrote that song about herself.

I agree - but in that was her realtionship with Mick from her perspective - the two are not mutually exclusive - just like LB wrote GYOW about his feelings, but La Nicks is most def. in there. Though I think B&B is more about the movie with Mick as an afterthought.