The Pope has died

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

Judy RAWKS!!! Hello, gorgeous!

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by dissention

The Scottish Episcopal church openly ordains gay clergy. They say that someone's sexuality holds no bearing on whether or not they want to become clergy, which I find pretty cool.

The United Church of Canada (Protestant) ordains gay men and women as ministers, as well as plain old straight ones; it blesses same sex marriage (which is legal in most provinces in Canada); we have saints (for the person above who spoke of "protestant sects" that don't. BTW, Protestantism is actually a religion, just like Anglicanism, Unitarian, etc. It's not a sect); we also celebrate advent. And all the other Christian holidays and traditions.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

The United Church of Canada (Protestant) ordains gay men and women as ministers, as well as plain old straight ones; it blesses same sex marriage (which is legal in most provinces in Canada); we have saints (for the person above who spoke of "protestant sects" that don't. BTW, Protestantism is actually a religion, just like Anglicanism, Unitarian, etc. It's not a sect); we also celebrate advent. And all the other Christian holidays and traditions.

I went to Catholic school for a few some odd years and they refused to let me have my first communion because my family was Protestant (at least that's my understanding of it). I had to sit in the pews while everyone else in my class practiced getting that little piece of cardboard put on their tongues.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

The United Church of Canada (Protestant) ordains gay men and women as ministers, as well as plain old straight ones; it blesses same sex marriage (which is legal in most provinces in Canada); we have saints (for the person above who spoke of "protestant sects" that don't. BTW, Protestantism is actually a religion, just like Anglicanism, Unitarian, etc. It's not a sect); we also celebrate advent. And all the other Christian holidays and traditions.

That was me. I really don't consider Protestantism a religion, though. Christianity is a religion; Protestantism is a branch. Anyway, the United Church of Canada sounds wonderful. It sounds like some of our more progressive denominations of Protestantism. (Some Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.) But it sounds nothing like most Baptist churches and the church I was raised in.

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

That was me. I really don't consider Protestantism a religion, though. Christianity is a religion; Protestantism is a branch. Anyway, the United Church of Canada sounds wonderful. It sounds like some of our more progressive denominations of Protestantism. (Some Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.) But it sounds nothing like most Baptist churches and the church I was raised in.

Not to be argumentative (really! ), but Protestantism IS a religion. It is a branch of Christianity, just like Catholocism is (and Anglican, and Presbyterian, and Unitarian, and Methodist). Just because it's a branch, doesn't mean it's not a religion in its own right.

(But it is fabulously progressive; it's a very moral based religion. "One serves God by serving one another.")

[amber]

But Catholicism is the original one, right? Everything else is an offshoot. (not to say they aren't their own branch, or anything. Just saying.) I mean, Catholicism isn't an offshoot of anything (pagan parallels aside).

[catinthedark]

It's not an offshoot, but it falls under the umbrella of Christianity.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by amber

But Catholicism is the original one, right? Everything else is an offshoot. (not to say they aren't their own branch, or anything. Just saying.) I mean, Catholicism isn't an offshoot of anything (pagan parallels aside).

Check your church history. The original "Catholics"/"Christians" were Jews. Peter, etc.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Tango

Check your church history. The original "Catholics"/"Christians" were Jews. Peter, etc.

I'll check. I knew. but nevertheless, catholicism was the first Christian religion besides that.

[ShamHy89]

It's not an offshoot, but it falls under the umbrella of Christianity.

The fact that it is not Catholicism (or perhaps Orthodox) means that it's necessarily an offshoot...but still Christianity nonetheless.

Shamus

[skcin]

A little off topic...wait, back on topic? Ah, who the hell knows anymore...

Did anyone else hear that Catholic tradition dictates that someone had to hit the pope on the head 3 times after he died to make sure he was actually dead? Is this really true?

And - is it true he has not been embalmed/preserved at all yet? Won't he start to um...well...er...go bad? I'm sorry, but seriously - he'll be laying there for like 5 days or something.

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by skcin

A little off topic...wait, back on topic? Ah, who the hell knows anymore...

Did anyone else hear that Catholic tradition dictates that someone had to hit the pope on the head 3 times after he died to make sure he was actually dead? Is this really true?

And - is it true he has not been embalmed/preserved at all yet? Won't he start to um...well...er...go bad? I'm sorry, but seriously - he'll be laying there for like 5 days or something.

There is an ancient tradition, from before the times that medical advances proved death to have occurred. When the pope would die, one of the archbishops or cardinals would indeed tap him three times on the head (tap, not hit! ) with a small hammer-like tool. Then they would call out his Christian name (Karol) three times. If he didn't answer, they would accept that his soul was gone to the Creator. From what I understand, they did carry out this tradition with John Paul II.

As for embalming, yes, they would have had to have done it already. Bodies begin to decompose very quickly. Plus if you've seen him on TV lying in state, it is pretty obvious he's been preserved and made up and everything. He has that somewhat waxy, not completely natural look to him.

One interesting thing - though he will be buried under St. Peter's in the tomb with the previous popes, his heart is to be buried in his native Poland.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

There is an ancient tradition, from before the times that medical advances proved death to have occurred. When the pope would die, one of the archbishops or cardinals would indeed tap him three times on the head (tap, not hit! ) with a small hammer-like tool. Then they would call out his Christian name (Karol) three times. If he didn't answer, they would accept that his soul was gone to the Creator. From what I understand, they did carry out this tradition with John Paul II.

As for embalming, yes, they would have had to have done it already. Bodies begin to decompose very quickly. Plus if you've seen him on TV lying in state, it is pretty obvious he's been preserved and made up and everything. He has that somewhat waxy, not completely natural look to him.

One interesting thing - though he will be buried under St. Peter's in the tomb with the previous popes, his heart is to be buried in his native Poland.

Really? I actually didn't think they embalmed the Pope..and that they weren't allowed to cut him open at all This was just something I thought...so haha...whatever - I don't know where I'd heard those things...

I've learned more about the Vatican in these last few days while watching this and while reading Dan Brown's Angels and Demons than I have living my whole life as a Catholic

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by amber

But Catholicism is the original one, right? Everything else is an offshoot. (not to say they aren't their own branch, or anything. Just saying.) I mean, Catholicism isn't an offshoot of anything (pagan parallels aside).

This seemed to clear it up for me:


Christianity is based upon the teachings of Jesus, a Jew who lived his life in the Roman province of Palestine. Roman communications networks enabled Christianity to spread quickly throughout the Roman empire and eventually to the rest of Europe, and finally the entire globe.

As time progressed, Christianity divided into three major branches. The Roman Catholic branch of Christianity is the successor of the church established in Rome soon after Christ's death. It traces its spiritual history to the early disciples of Jesus. The Pope, or spiritual leader, traces his office's lineage back to St. Peter, the first Pope, one of Jesus' disciples. Roman Catholicism was originally predominately practiced in Ireland, Poland, France and Spain.

During the fourth century, the Roman Catholic church split and the Eastern Orthodox branch was formed.


The split was primarily a political one due to the division of the Roman Empire into western and eastern components. The two churches became officially separate in 1054. Orthodox churches are largely national, each associated with a particular country. Orthodoxy is common in Russia, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, the Ukraine, and Armenia.

The Protestant branch split from Roman Catholicism during the Reformation, a sixteenth and seventeenth century series of church reforms in doctrine and practice. This movement challenged the authority of the Pope, and became popular in Scandinavia, England, and the Netherlands. Protestantism eventually divided into many denominations which arose in response to disputes over doctrine, theology, or religious practice. Some of the large denominations today are Lutherans, Methodists and Baptists.

[catinthedark]

Thanks for that, Heather. I think you cleared it up for many of us.