What religon/belief...... - Page 2

GateandGarden · #16 04-02-2005, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

I do hold spiritual beliefs but this is interesting...If your familiar with early American literature, William Cullen Bryant began writing a poem entitled "Thanatopsis" at age seventeen and continued throughout his life to revise it. It was sort of a musing on death questioning how we are supposed to live when a loved one dies and were faced with thinking about our own mortality. He says:

Thou shalt lie down
With patriarchs of the infant world, with kings
the powerful of the earth, the wise, the good,
Fair forms, and hoary seers of ages past,
All in one mighty sepulchre.

To me, it's comforting when you think about it. Yes, it's an unknown but really, so is life until you start living it. He's basically saying that you can take comfort in those who died before you and that you should live with trust (everyone else is there) and that it's always been okay and will continue to be okay. People die and will continue to die. Life will go on but you'll not be forgotten--you'll be one with Earth and carry on and so will everyone else.

I do remember "Thanatopsis," though I was rusty on it, so thanks for posting that verse. Thanks for your whole post, too.

GateandGarden · #17 04-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Why would grieving be exclusive for those who believe in superior beings?? We grieve just like anyone else but don't believe the person is with God or anything of the sort.

Actually if you're me you make jokes about death but I'm weird.

Yes, of course, I would imagine that you still grieve, but I wonder how one copes with the notion of never having any contact whatsoever with someone he or she loves dearly ever again. Perhaps an answer is in Marissa's post; I don't know. It's a thought.

GardenStateGirlie · #18 04-02-2005, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Actually if you're me you make jokes about death but I'm weird.

Life's a piece of ****,
when you look at it,
Life's a laugh, and death's the joke,
It's true!
You'll see, it's all a show,
Keep em' laughing as you go,
Just remember the last laugh is on you!

amber · #19 04-02-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Why would grieving be exclusive for those who believe in superior beings?? We grieve just like anyone else but don't believe the person is with God or anything of the sort.

Actually if you're me you make jokes about death but I'm weird.

Yes, tis true. Animals grieve for their lost mates/children, but I doubt they believe that they are with god, either. In fact I'm pretty sure they don't think anything of the sort. I think grieving is independent of such things, it is just a natural condition of living. Not anything to do with god, at all. (who I don't believe in).

amber · #20 04-02-2005, 12:25 AM

Also, I think it is possible to believe you're loved one's soul is still around (I find it hard to believe it isn't) without believing they went to heaven, or are "with god". To me, death is just energy, replaced into a different form.

GardenStateGirlie · #21 04-02-2005, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I do remember "Thanatopsis," though I was rusty on it, so thanks for posting that verse. Thanks for your whole post, too.

*hugs her copy of The American Tradition in Literature*

No problem. Glad the fact that I've taken six English and Lit courses in college could come in handy for something O_o <---nerd glasses.

GateandGarden · #22 04-02-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Why would grieving be exclusive for those who believe in superior beings?? We grieve just like anyone else but don't believe the person is with God or anything of the sort.

Actually if you're me you make jokes about death but I'm weird.

Also, there's another thing I wanted to clarify about my post. This doesn't really have a thing to do with whether or not you believe in a superior being. I do not necessarily beileve that myself. It's a question about the human spirit.

Mad4stevie · #23 04-02-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Well I know my beliefs piss people off because I believe that the need to hold onto the belief in superior beings and all the associated beliefs is an inability to deal with randomness and often brutal realities. I think it's a comfort for them and that those who don't require this are more open to the harshness of life. I know I just get on the nerves of religious people but I really think it's an inability to cope with being insignifcant and random. I guess I feel it's a weakness.

That is an interesting perspective to me, probably because I have always thought that the inability to have faith or hope in life is a weakness, whether applied to death/afterlife or not.

amber · #24 04-02-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Well I know my beliefs piss people off because I believe that the need to hold onto the belief in superior beings and all the associated beliefs is an inability to deal with randomness and often brutal realities. I think it's a comfort for them and that those who don't require this are more open to the harshness of life. I know I just get on the nerves of religious people but I really think it's an inability to cope with being insignifcant and random. I guess I feel it's a weakness.

Ah! yes. I believe that the inability to cope with the insignifigant and random is at the core of religious beliefs as well. But I submit, that death is a part of life, a part of the cycle, that, while painful, is integral. While i think that there is some sort of weird "soul" (I believe this because of evidence, and what people have seen when their loved ones passed on, etc) I don't think that soul need be "with god" or anything like that. To me, it just may be transferred energy, transferred matter.

GardenStateGirlie · #25 04-02-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Exactly! There's always a part of Monty Python that can sum up my beliefs. If you want to know what I believe, watch Life Of Brian.

9am each morning during the week, the end to the 102.9 WMGK morning show is Always Look On The Bright Side of Life <3 Ahh...Monty Python...how I love thee.

GateandGarden · #26 04-02-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Well I know my beliefs piss people off because I believe that the need to hold onto the belief in superior beings and all the associated beliefs is an inability to deal with randomness and often brutal realities. I think it's a comfort for them and that those who don't require this are more open to the harshness of life. I know I just get on the nerves of religious people but I really think it's an inability to cope with being insignifcant and random. I guess I feel it's a weakness.

I think that some belief systems can be a cop out and a sign of weakness or an inability to think out of one's box. (Sorry for the embarrassing cliche). But I don't see how we're insignificant, as you put it.

xxxmx · #27 04-02-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

An honest question:

For those of you who do not hold any spiritual beliefs whatsoever, and prefer to stick to what is true beyond any shadow of a doubt and not to worry with what cannot be proven, how do you cope with the death of someone close to you?

i was with my aunt when she died, and as i do not believe in 'heaven' or 'hell' it was quite sad to think that she just 'stopped.' it's sad to think that all of her memories were just *poof* gone, but i can't really see anything else happening. how to deal? i make sure that i talk to my mom and my gram and my sister and my dad every day, and i make sure that i say what i need to say to them, and i make sure that i act in ways that will make them feel loved and needed by me... and i remember that my aunt was one classy lady who called often, and that she always had a story to tell, and that she always made sure that i knew when she was thinking of me... i guess i'm an 'accentuate the positive' kind of person.

GateandGarden · #28 04-02-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad4stevie

That is an interesting perspective to me, probably because I have always thought that the inability to have faith or hope in life is a weakness, whether applied to death/afterlife or not.

I think that that is true as well. I think that clinging to irrational faith is a sign of weakness, but I also think that being incapable of any faith at all is a sign of weakness as well.

GateandGarden · #29 04-02-2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxmx

i was with my aunt when she died, and as i do not believe in 'heaven' or 'hell' it was quite sad to think that she just 'stopped.' it's sad to think that all of her memories were just *poof* gone, but i can't really see anything else happening. how to deal? i make sure that i talk to my mom and my gram and my sister and my dad every day, and i make sure that i say what i need to say to them, and i make sure that i act in ways that will make them feel loved and needed by me... and i remember that my aunt was one classy lady who called often, and that she always had a story to tell, and that she always made sure that i knew when she was thinking of me... i guess i'm an 'accentuate the positive' kind of person.

I think see some of what you mean. Because of the possibility (not certainty by any means, IMO) that this is the end, we have to appreciate life and let it be known to others how important they are while we're here.

GardenStateGirlie · #30 04-02-2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I think that that is true as well. I think that clinging to irrational faith is a sign of weakness, but I also think that being incapable of any faith at all is a sign of weakness as well.

So then what can be classified as wrong and what can be classified as right? I would agree but to be philosophical for a moment, if I may be, we're saying clinging to irrational faith is a sign of weakness but at the same token, we're then saying if we're incapable of any faith, it's a sign of weakness too. That's a rather large conundrum. How is any faith completely and totally 100% rational? Isn't all faith rather irrational but because we own it and hold on to it, to us, it is or does then become rational?

Just a thought.