Billboard album sales

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

. . . Well that's because Stevie's interjections distrupted the fluent masterpiece that is the combination of Lindsey's tracks. Once again, Lindsey being forced to compromise for her stardom. When I speak of SYW I refer only to Lindsey's tracks and that is a brilliant album with a 'vision'. Although it is a somewhat shorten one seeing as Stevie had to twirl on in with her mundanity draped in chiffon. I realise however that to the casual listener (as opposed to the more frantic listener...does SYW even have casual listeners?) it's the whole product but their inability to distinguish and appreciate Lindsey's brilliance further emphasises why they should all be beaten.

Intertestingly, he did not seem to have a problem doing it and in fact seemed intrigued by adding her to his stuff - thus, your point appears to be irrelevant and incorrect or at least unwilling to admit that LB's brilliance loves Stevie's talent

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Intertestingly, he did not seem to have a problem doing it and in fact seemed intrigued by adding her to his stuff - thus, your point appears to be irrelevant and incorrect or at least unwilling to admit that LB's brilliance loves Stevie's talent

Too bad his brilliance trumps her talent at every possible turn.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Intertestingly, he did not seem to have a problem doing it and in fact seemed intrigued by adding her to his stuff - thus, your point appears to be irrelevant and incorrect or at least unwilling to admit that LB's brilliance loves Stevie's talent

Would you say that to Bob Dylan?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Would you say that to Bob Dylan?

Lindsey loves the poet that she is.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Too bad his brilliance trumps her talent at every possible turn.

Now Now - let's not make this into a LB is more talented than SN thread - not that that was what you were trying to do :roilleyes:

My point was LB seemed thrilled to work with La Nicks and appreciated her contributions as well as producing her - thus, the lovely Lux's point or at least implication that La Nicks somehow was on the former LB solo stuff to LB's chagrain was not supported

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Lindsey loves the poet that she is.

I think he loves the money it has made him - just as she loves the effect his enourmous talent has had on her work -

I guess people just love poking at them and constantly trying to say one is better than the other. I think such comparisons are apples and oranges because each has their own talent and thusly contributes in their own way. Yet - the guff of La Nicks is neverending and she is laughing all of the way to the bank as is LB

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

My point was LB seemed thrilled to work with La Nicks and appreciated her contributions as well as producing her - thus, the lovely Lux's point or at least implication that La Nicks somehow was on the former LB solo stuff to LB's chagrain was not supported

How the man who gave the world Red Rover can appreciate the likes of Silver Girl and Running Through the Garden is beyond me, but I get your point.

I still wish, however, that he had either saved Peacekeeper for a solo album or not used it at all. Stevie's presence on it aggravates me to no end and I hate how the tempo was slowed. Grr.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think he loves the money it has made him - just as she loves the effect his enourmous talent has had on her work -

Of course he loves the money, who the hell wouldn't? But he looks and sounds like such a dumbf*ck once he starts with his starving artist routine that I can't bear to look at him.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I guess people just love poking at them and constantly trying to say one is better than the other. I think such comparisons are apples and oranges because each has their own talent and thusly contributes in their own way. Yet - the guff of La Nicks is neverending and she is laughing all of the way to the bank as is LB

Well, I do think Lindsey is better than she is.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by dissention

But, honestly, how should they have marketed the album? As far as it stands as an actual piece of work, it's just a dark and brooding mish-mash of two musical styles that don't work together. Red Rover on the same album as Everybody Finds Out? Silver Girl on the same album as Murrow Turning Over In His Grave? Come on the same album as Goodbye Baby? As much as I love the album, it has no continuity, none of it blends together at all, and it turns out just being mess. It's just too much for one to handle, many of the die-hards on this board have even said as much. And if it's hard for the big fans to swallow, just imagine how hard a pill it was for the general public to swallow.

I think part of the reason the album sank like a stone is bad word of mouth. Reading the user reviews on Amazon is very telling because most of them come from simply casual fans. Boiled down, most people missed Christine, found Lindsey's tracks were off-putting, and Stevie either left people scratching their heads or loving what were seen as the only commercial tracks on the blasted thing. The reviews weren't exactly kind, either. Some critics thought Silver Girl was about a porn star, they called Red Rover noisy junk, said Illume was downright "embarrassing," thought Everybody Finds Out was a desperate attempt to reach the young crowd, accused Lindsey of being a spoiler when it comes to production, and blasted it for being such a long epic album with no real point. What gets our jollies off as fans is really off-putting to casual fans.

The album could have been a big hit, but the actual content of it prevented that from happening. I think Warners did a phenomenal job marketing it, the public just didn't care for the product very much.

Yes! Sometimes you really make sense!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yeah, and Tusk flopped as well.

Compared to 'Rumours,' sure. But 4 million albums is nothing to sneeze at.
And my point was that people don't have a problem declaring 'Tusk' an unequivocal masterpiece despite the comparatively small sales and despite the haphazard running order and massive disparity between the styles of the songs from the three writers.

Originally Posted by dissention

You make it sound as if no one likes the album. You must have missed it in my post where I was speaking form the viewpoint of the casual fan. When put into their shoes, you should have no problem understanding why the content of the album was the cause of its bombing. To fans of Landslide and Go Your Own Way, it was nothing more than a slap in the face and just a lot of noise with no purpose.

I was merely pointing out that, as I see it, 'Say You Will' has something for everyone. Songs that should definitely please the fans of "Landslide," "Dreams," et al., and songs that should definitely please the fans of "Save Me A Place," "What Makes You Think You're The One" and "The Ledge," etc.

And if 'SYW' had followed hot on the heels of 'The Dance,' as 'Tusk' followed 'Rumours,' then I think it would have found a larger audience more willing to give it a chance.

Originally Posted by dissention

Eclectic is a nice way to say that it's disjointed and flows together like oil and water.

Again... exactly like 'Tusk.'

Originally Posted by dissention

It can be called many nice names and I happen to like the album a lot, but let's stop the window dressing and call it what it is: a monster of an album that is quite the acquired taste. It's Lindsey and Stevie unleashed and at their most indulgent. While the individual songs are pretty damn good, there was absolutely no vision or thinking as to how it would go together as a final product and the album suffers from it. While I love getting 18 tracks as opposed to 12, most folks simply don't have the patience to listen to it.

Tusk flows better for the simple fact that there are two extremes (Lindsey and Stevie) with Christine's middle-of-the-road approach between them to lessen their impact a bit.

I disagree... in it's original running order, 'Tusk' doesn't flow well at all. At least not to my ears.
For a nine song run, 'Tusk' is nothing but the "indulgent" extremes of Lindsey and Stevie, with Lindsey's material sounding the absolute least like ANYTHING that ever graced a Mac album before.
And Christine's last four songs almost feel like afterthoughts within the running order.

Originally Posted by dissention

Instead, it sounds like two different artists laying down a bit of vocals on each other's songs to pretty them up for the use of the Fleetwood Mac name. And that's what it really is, essentially. Doesn't mean I don't love the album, it just means calling a spade a spade.

Obviously I can see why it seems that way, regarding Lindsey's songs (which I'm not at all knocking, by the way)... but I don't understand why people feel Stevie's songs also sound like solo tracks that Lindsey just happens to be singing on.
He produced them, arranged them, played on them, and sang on them. What more could he have done, other than sitting in Stevie's living room playing guitar as she wrote them? And that hasn't happened in 27 years!

At any rate... all I'm trying to say is that I think anyone who adores 'Tusk' shouldn't have a problem adoring 'Say You Will'... just as it is.
'Tusk' and 'SYW' share almost all of the same strengths and weaknesses, aside from a lack of Christine songs on the latter.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

Too bad his brilliance trumps her talent at every possible turn.

Aside from the innovative guitar-playing style used on "Red Rover" and "Say Goodbye," everything Lindsey does has already been done by him a million times before.
The left-to-right-channel panning, the "fun with VSO," the solos that sound as if they were lifted from earlier tunes, and so on.

Let me stress that I love it all... but, aside from a couple of rare tracks here and there, Lindsey basically sticks to the same approach he's been using for decades.
But that's what a good artist does... they work around their weaknesses and learn to play up their strengths. Lindsey does that, and Stevie does that. We're just all so familiar with their work now, that we sometimes have trouble seeing the forest for the trees.

He IS brilliant, but she is as well. In two different ways.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

Well, I do think Lindsey is better than she is.

Thus negating anything you have to say in regards to Stevie's contributions, whether on their own merits or in comparison to Lindsey's.
You're obviously biased towards him, in the same way that many people are biased towards her. *lol*

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Aside from the innovative guitar-playing style used on "Red Rover" and "Say Goodbye," everything Lindsey does has already been done by him a million times before.
The left-to-right-channel panning, the "fun with VSO," the solos that sound as if they were lifted from earlier tunes, and so on.

Let me stress that I love it all... but, aside from a couple of rare tracks here and there, Lindsey basically sticks to the same approach he's been using for decades.
But that's what a good artist does... they work around their weaknesses and learn to play up their strengths. Lindsey does that, and Stevie does that. We're just all so familiar with their work now, that we sometimes have trouble seeing the forest for the trees.

He IS brilliant, but she is as well. In two different ways.

I have trouble seeing the forest from the trees because I think Lindsey is brilliant and Stevie is mediocre? I've said it a million times, Stevie was great years ago, she does almost nothing for me now. You can pretty it up by saying they're both brilliant and so on, we both have our own opinions regarding their music. But they're just musicians who make silly rock and pop tunes.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

You're obviously biased towards him, in the same way that many people are biased towards her. *lol*

Ho****. We're in the same boat, then.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

I have trouble seeing the forest from the trees because I think Lindsey is brilliant and Stevie is mediocre? I've said it a million times, Stevie was great years ago, she does almost nothing for me now. You can pretty it up by saying they're both brilliant and so on, we both have our own opinions regarding their music. But they're just musicians who make silly rock and pop tunes.

I honestly think that you're burned out on Stevie. (Not that my armchair observations hold any water.)

If Stevie had released a mere three solo albums over the course of the last 20+ years, then I think you'd be more inclined to appreciate what she's doing now. It would seem "fresher" and more exciting to you, perhaps.
It seems to me (again, not that my opinion matters) that your familiarity with her music has bred a level of contempt.

Conversely, if Lindsey was the one with six or seven albums of his channel-panning, voice-oscillations, and familiar-sounding guitar solos, then HE might be the one you'd be bored with right now.

Your boredom doesn't negate her brilliance, my dear. *lol*

Originally Posted by dissention

But they're just musicians who make silly rock and pop tunes.

I've been saying that for years... which is why I don't understand why folks can't just sit back and enjoy the music rather than looking for flaws with everything.