Billboard album sales

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Say You Will IS definitely platnum whether it is or not. Madonna's last album is Platnum and Say You Will practically doubled Madonna's sales. So it's really just warners or whatever not wanting to certify SYW platnum even though it probably is.

No, Madonna's album shipped more than Say You Will did.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Illume and Thrown Down added A LOT to Say You Will. And Say You Will added a lot to Say You Will simply by making Say You Will, Say You Will

Ugh, Thrown Down is putrid swill to these ears. I can't stand it. I specifically burned myself a copy without it. Same tired old cliches in a package with a bow that lost it's luster years ago. I like parts of Illume, but that laughable voice and her monotonous delivery, coupled with music that goes nowhere, ruin it for me. However, I did think the album should have been named Illume or Come.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by dissention

No, Madonna's album shipped more than Say You Will did.

Well Say You Will SOLD a lot more.

[MacMan]

You have to actually pay RIAA to certify your albums.. cds.. whatever it is. Auditors need to be hired and paid to come in... look at all the data at the record label and there you have it.

If an artist or label does't feel like paying an auditor to do this, or if they want to wait to included other cds in their catelogue - then we sit and wait for the right time.

[Janet]

SYW is an amazing album. It's my fav FM album.

Every song should stay where it is but Silver Girl, Goodbye Baby and the title song.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Janet

SYW is an amazing album. It's my fav FM album.

Woah!.......well,......I can say......that's the FIRST time I've EVER read that!

[Kelly]

I love Thrown Down. It's catchy and the lyrics seem genuine enough to me.

As for the album and its sales or lack thereof....the marketing was fairly minimal. The appearances did not help. Stevie had zero energy on Leno and the Today Show? We won't go there. They obviously learned nothing from the success of the Dance. Why didn't they bother making a video for heavens sake? Peacekeeper, although not my first choice for the lead off single, could have generated an interesting concept video. Say You Will as well. (maybe something along the lines of LB's Slow Dancing video)

[Gazza]

To me the problem with the album is summed up by the fact that one song after hearing a bunch of young children sing the chorus to Say You Will, you then find Lindsey telling you to think of him every time you don't come.

They should have made one really energetic/inventive/different album with tracks like Come, Murrow, Everybody Finds Out, Illume, Red Rover etc. and put in a couple of the best single material songs like Thrown Down.

Stuff like What's The World Coming To, and Say You Will are just too generic imo.

But I definitely think there's more stuff there to enjoy than any album since Tusk. It just suffers in the same way Tusk does - there doesn't seem to be one collective vision for the album.

Everybody Finds Out would have been my choice for a single with a video.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by MacMan

You have to actually pay RIAA to certify your albums.. cds.. whatever it is. Auditors need to be hired and paid to come in... look at all the data at the record label and there you have it.

If an artist or label does't feel like paying an auditor to do this, or if they want to wait to included other cds in their catelogue - then we sit and wait for the right time.

That's what I'm saying. No one feels like paying for SYW's Platnum status.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Gazza

To me the problem with the album is summed up by the fact that one song after hearing a bunch of young children sing the chorus to Say You Will, you then find Lindsey telling you to think of him every time you don't come.

I never quite thought of it this way but yes, you're right.

[golddustwoman77]

I think that it hasn't faired that well, because the marketing for the album, Say You Will, was sub-par, at best. I've found that most "casual," Fleetwood Mac fans don't even know that they had a new album or video out. The general public has to be told that it is out there, or they just don't know that it is there=marketing. These people would have probably wanted to hear the new album, but they didn't know it was out there. Let's face it; we only knew the album was coming out, because we keep up with the band. I don't remember much publicity, except for a few commericals on at specific times on VH1 and VH1 Classic. I think Warner Brothers has failed the band by not marketing the album better. The band really should have pushed for that as well, but I think they have the attitude like Stevie said in Destiny Rules about how people her age are not "sitting on the floor smoking dope wondering what the next record is they're gonna buy." Therefore, they are just thankful to put out the record, and that the record company wanted to put it out. The band needs to remember who they are, and that they deserve to be marketed well. They have made A LOT of money for Warner Brothers over the years. What gets played on the radio today is what the record companies want, therefore if Warner Brothers had pushed this album, it would have gotten more air time, more publicity, etc. The crazy, record company world!

[MacMan]

The days of when a record company sticks by a band or artist because they are acutally "good" and worth keeping around are gone! Today... the listener of radio and the buyer of music are in complete control here especially if you are on one of the major labels. It is so money driven that they, the labels, can't afford failures what so ever, they are spread that thin.

As for radio and video and not marketing the band enough... I'm not sure about that. I mean you can only do so much as a label, then you have to let the public dictate where the product is going to go. If there is huge response from listeners at radio level for a particular song, single or not, then the music reaches the top... there's no other way. Playlists aren't just made up by record labels cause they want a certain band to do well, they are ultimately derived from listener response. I'm sure there are all kinds of incentives and reminders thrown the radio stations way to promote stuff.. but in the end, the public dictates what they want to hear by responding to it. A combination of single sales and radio play used to make up the big charts, now that singles aren't being made much anymore you lose that end of the equation... If there are no singles to buy or no response at radio to play the music... the song goes nowhere.

Going out on tour for groups like FM is probably the best marketing tool they have to market their music now-adays. They hit all kinds of markets, big and small, especially on this tour. This is usually accompanied by print media on the band either in reviews of the show, or just write-ups in general about them still being a group and out on the road - which usually mentions any new music if they have it... I'm sure there are radio announcements.... and in some markets tv spots.

I don't know... It's a weird situation I think and a challenge for a labels I'm sure. I try to think from my perspective... What type of advertising would make me realize that something was out there. I don't sit around watching videos all the time or even have those stations on, mainly because they aren't vid stations anymore. I was around when MTV first started out and it was excellent... nothing but videos - pretty much 24/7! And you'd sit and wait.. or leave the tv on, just to catch your favorite band. Now.. There's like an hour here and there alotted for videos!! So basically that angle would be useless. Radio.... Get maybe an hour of it a day when getting up and ready for work... other then that, it's the computer or tv.. Or if they came to town, I'd hear about that....

I think doing things like the All Access half hour gig and the Destiny Rules Doc. on vh1 are also great ways they were marketed... It's a little bit extra other then just throwing out a cd and praying to god that radio plays it. And I also think the pbs Live In Boston was a good idea, although it was on at very weird times of the night, so in the end, it probably did squat to promote anything! They should have had like an hour long concert on one of the big 4 stations instead of pbs... that would have been great!

In the end... people have to care enough to go out and buy the music. I mean they cared enough to go out and see the band on the road... Let's see... approx. 140 shows, roughly 10,000 per show... You do the math.

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by MacMan

I think doing things like the All Access half hour gig and the Destiny Rules Doc. on vh1 are also great ways they were marketed... It's a little bit extra other then just throwing out a cd and praying to god that radio plays it. And I also think the pbs Live In Boston was a good idea, although it was on at very weird times of the night, so in the end, it probably did squat to promote anything! They should have had like an hour long concert on one of the big 4 stations instead of pbs... that would have been great!

In the end... people have to care enough to go out and buy the music. I mean they cared enough to go out and see the band on the road... Let's see... approx. 140 shows, roughly 10,000 per show... You do the math.

Sure, except Destiny Rules came out more than a year later, with no other support for the album. I mean - they played the Miranda chords at every commercial, and there's the title of the doc itself. So, why weren't those 2 songs pushed as singles at that point, with a little blurb on the show that announced it?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by golddustwoman77

I think that it hasn't faired that well, because the marketing for the album, Say You Will, was sub-par, at best.

But, honestly, how should they have marketed the album? As far as it stands as an actual piece of work, it's just a dark and brooding mish-mash of two musical styles that don't work together. Red Rover on the same album as Everybody Finds Out? Silver Girl on the same album as Murrow Turning Over In His Grave? Come on the same album as Goodbye Baby? As much as I love the album, it has no continuity, none of it blends together at all, and it turns out just being mess. It's just too much for one to handle, many of the die-hards on this board have even said as much. And if it's hard for the big fans to swallow, just imagine how hard a pill it was for the general public to swallow.

I think part of the reason the album sank like a stone is bad word of mouth. Reading the user reviews on Amazon is very telling because most of them come from simply casual fans. Boiled down, most people missed Christine, found Lindsey's tracks were off-putting, and Stevie either left people scratching their heads or loving what were seen as the only commercial tracks on the blasted thing. The reviews weren't exactly kind, either. Some critics thought Silver Girl was about a porn star, they called Red Rover noisy junk, said Illume was downright "embarrassing," thought Everybody Finds Out was a desperate attempt to reach the young crowd, accused Lindsey of being a spoiler when it comes to production, and blasted it for being such a long epic album with no real point. What gets our jollies off as fans is really off-putting to casual fans.

The album could have been a big hit, but the actual content of it prevented that from happening. I think Warners did a phenomenal job marketing it, the public just didn't care for the product very much.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Nixxxed

Sure, except Destiny Rules came out more than a year later, with no other support for the album. I mean - they played the Miranda chords at every commercial, and there's the title of the doc itself. So, why weren't those 2 songs pushed as singles at that point, with a little blurb on the show that announced it?

I think it took forever to be released on VH1 because the band had to have it edited to their satisfaction, i.e. sanitize it. Didn't you find it odd that the battles over the tour length and the running order were mysteriously left out and only referred to?