This proves Bush doesnt care about the little guy

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

You're right. Nothing left to say. And I do feel better. And y'all always help me feel better about rampant ignorance. Well, "I'm on my way" now, as Chris would say, since it is quite late. Endless thanks to all my straight and gay allies! Y'all are very much appreciated. You give this girl some hope for a bright future.

first of all...no one said I was a girl...come on now...but how were you supposed to know...I could have been a guy ;-)

But...thanks for the chat...and I really don't HATE you. But Im still "conservative for life"

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Well see thats what I don't get...just because I have a set of beliefs that I follow and believe...why do I have to bend that to become "open-minded" to make you happy?

Okay, one more. The answer was given by Amber via Martin Luther King, Jr. already. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." The fact that I don't have my rights is a threat to you, but you don't see that. You are not even really being asked to bend because no church will be forced to perform gay marriage ceremonies and marriage is a civil institution, not a religious one. So, all of that being pointed out, I should not be the only one who is made to be happy when gay marriage is legalized everywhere.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

first of all...no one said I was a girl...come on now...but how were you supposed to know...I could have been a guy ;-)

But...thanks for the chat...and I really don't HATE you. But Im still "conservative for life"

I didn't assume you were female. I meant myself; they give me hope for a brighter future. And let's not get into the hatred again. I know you hate me.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

well no...because God has already spoken on that subject...(if you really want to read scripture...ill give you books and verses...but you probably don't care so I don't quote)

but no matter what sins are committed...each will be judged in the end...and that is God's job...not mine!

Oh, I forgot the part where God dictated his Memo to some people. Yeah. yeah. I would read it, but there's a problem....Some guy wrote it, God didn't sit down with a big, Godly pen. It's the interpretation of "God", by some ancient people. I will never believe that if there is a god, he/she would say such things. The Great Spirit in my land would never create something, then advocate descriminating against it.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Well see thats what I don't get...just because I have a set of beliefs that I follow and believe...why do I have to bend that to become "open-minded" to make you happy?

Everyone SHOULD believe in something, in my opinion. I feel a belief in a being higher than ourselves, inspires us to continue working towards being better people.

BUT... when God/Jesus/The Bible is used as an excuse for discriminatory and prejudicial thoughts and opinions, that's simply wrong.

Anyone who paid attention, should know that God is about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
HE would never condone treating people as if they're second-class citizens, and HE would most certainly never condone using His name to excuse exclusionary behaviour.

If people feel they're "doing God's work," by preventing gays from having equal rights in employment, housing and spousal benefits, then I have a feeling they're going to be in for a terribly rude awakening when they go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by takenbythesky

I was not referring to the results of the 2004 election. I was referring to the fact that, sadly, many people in America are against gay marriage. I am sorry if the way that I communicated that in my previous post was confusing and am sorrier if I came across as smug or haughty. Just because the majority of America believes that gay marriage should not be allowed does not mean that gay marriage should be banned; that is my opinion.

I love people who also just happen to be gay, and I want only the best for those people. I want, one day, to receive invitations in the mail to attend gay couples' legally recognized marriage ceremonies. Until that day comes, I will speak out against the injustice that is being committed against gays. It is nothing personal, brwn_eyes0511. I feel the need to defend the rights of other (in this case, gay) human beings.

Not one single human being should be denied the right to be legally married to the person they love. Gay couples need to be protected under the same laws as heterosexual married couples are. As of right now, most are not allowed to marry. This causes problems for gay couples.

As for God not wanting people to have sex with others of the same gender? As for God not wanting people of the same sex to love each other? As for God not wanting two people of the same sex to marry each other? This being a Fleetwood Mac message board, I will leave you with a quote from Stevie Nicks: "We all believe in people.../That we think believe in God/Somewhere in the night.../Someone feels the pain/The ones who walk away/Try to love again..."

Very well said...and you didn't come of as rude and I hope I didn't...

I just hate being alone on this (no conservatives here to back me up) and I know its hard to believe but I just am trying to believe what I believe...and Im sorry that that offends some people....but we have a right to express are beliefs and opinions...which is what makes us Americans!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Everyone SHOULD believe in something, in my opinion. I feel a belief in a being higher than ourselves, inspires us to continue working towards being better people.

BUT... when God/Jesus/The Bible is used as an excuse for discriminatory and prejudicial thoughts and opinions, that's simply wrong.

Anyone who paid attention, should know that God is about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
HE would never condone treating people as if they're second-class citizens, and HE would most certainly never condone using His name to excuse exclusionary behaviour.

If people feel they're "doing God's work," by preventing gays from having equal rights in employment, housing and spousal benefits, then I have a feeling they're going to be in for a terribly rude awakening when they go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door.

God IS about LOVE...he is LOVE PERIOD!!! And I am not trying to use something to be hateful! Im sorry if it comes off that way.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by amber

Oh, I forgot the part where God dictated his Memo to some people. Yeah. yeah. I would read it, but there's a problem....Some guy wrote it, God didn't sit down with a big, Godly pen. It's the interpretation of "God", by some ancient people. I will never believe that if there is a god, he/she would say such things. The Great Spirit in my land would never create something, then advocate descriminating against it.

Well you have to believe that the words were devinely inspired..which gets us back on the whole "religion" subject again!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I didn't assume you were female. I meant myself; they give me hope for a brighter future. And let's not get into the hatred again. I know you hate me.

NO I DON"T...come on now...out of ANYTHING that anyone can do or say about me tonight...nothing will hurt worse then to know that someone has left this discussion thinking that I hate them!

PLEASE DON'T DO THAT! I love everyone and try my hardest to do so.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

God IS about LOVE...he is LOVE PERIOD!!! And I am not trying to use something to be hateful! Im sorry if it comes off that way.

Love is about not judging, as well. God is not about rules. God doesn't think some humans (and dare i say it, other living beings) should have certain rights and others shouldn't. You seem to have a good heart, but it's hard for us to understand, because you support things that are prejudicial and unfair to a part of the population. And even if you, yourself, didn't have those prejudices, you support institutions and people that do have those prejudices, and those people work towards removing rights from certain people. Not to bring up a distastful analogy, but it's like being in Hitler's army, then saying you don't reallythink the Aryan race is superior, and all others should go to death camps.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

God IS about LOVE...he is LOVE PERIOD!!! And I am not trying to use something to be hateful! Im sorry if it comes off that way.

Hey, it's no sweat off my back either way. But next time the thought comes into your head that gays are somehow beneath others and are undeserving of the various rights afforded to heterosexuals, just do me (and, more importantly, yourself) a favor, and think about that 17 year old kid alone in his room somewhere in Alabama, laying in his bed and staring at the ceiling, wondering why God and everyone around him, hates him so much just for being who he was born to be.

And think about him as he wishes he could have the happiness and fulfillment that seems to only be available to "the lucky ones" in this life, and wonders if his life is even worth living, or if he's doomed to always being something reviled.

Think about him, and the many gays and lesbians who never make it past their teens, because the only future they can see for themselves, is one filled with hatred, discrimination, loneliness and pain.

Their blood is on all of our hands.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Their blood is on all of our hands.

My point exactly.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by amber

Love is about not judging, as well. God is not about rules. God doesn't think some humans (and dare i say it, other living beings) should have certain rights and others shouldn't. You seem to have a good heart, but it's hard for us to understand, because you support things that are prejudicial and unfair to a part of the population. And even if you, yourself, didn't have those prejudices, you support institutions and people that do have those prejudices, and those people work towards removing rights from certain people. Not to bring up a distastful analogy, but it's like being in Hitler's army, then saying you don't reallythink the Aryan race is superior, and all others should go to death camps.

again im sorry if it comes off that way...but I just have my belifs and Im sorry that they offend some people! but oh well...I hope no one hates me...because I hate no one...I try to be a beacon for all...as all christians are called to be...and I try so hard not to be judgmental...but I still believe what I believe...so that said

I apologize for anyone who may have been personally hurt!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Hey, it's no sweat off my back either way. But next time the thought comes into your head that gays are somehow beneath others and are undeserving of the various rights afforded to heterosexuals, just do me (and, more importantly, yourself) a favor, and think about that 17 year old kid alone in his room somewhere in Alabama, laying in his bed and staring at the ceiling, wondering why God and everyone around him, hates him so much just for being who he was born to be.

And think about him as he wishes he could have the happiness and fulfillment that seems to only be available to "the lucky ones" in this life, and wonders if his life is even worth living, or if he's doomed to always being something reviled.

Think about him, and the many gays and lesbians who never make it past their teens, because the only future they can see for themselves, is one filled with hatred, discrimination, loneliness and pain.

Their blood is on all of our hands.

But thats the thing...I have said over and over (hey christine pun..lol) that I don't think that ANYONE is beneath ANYONE...we are all equal! PERIOD.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by takenbythesky

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."--Voltaire

exactly.