Hmmm Hypocrisy all Around

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by tynan88

I think FOX news is shown in Australia for a bot of a novelty :lol

CNN though to be honest I don't associate with a country, I see it as more of an international station, because it is very diverse.

Tynan

really - that is interesting. When I was in Montreal about a year or so ago, these people I met were like CNN is W's lapdog - I was like WTF - you mean Fox - they were like CNN. I think there was a language barrier

[tynan88]

Christiane Amanpour

That sounds so classy I LOVE that name, and her accent.

Tynan

[tynan88]

really - that is interesting. When I was in Montreal about a year or so ago, these people I met were like CNN is W's lapdog - I was like WTF - you mean Fox - they were like CNN. I think there was a language barrier

Nah to me, CNN seems very independent, it has a very international and to me a very European focus on it, also there are some Aussies on it so it's very international even though its based in Atlanta (is it?).

I would be interested to see what other non-Americans think.

Tynan

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Yep - and Americans SAW her report the news Thus, my point

Your point isn't any such thing. CNN silenced her and reprimanded her for not sanitizing her pieces. She then went on Inside Politics and ripped the network a new asshole for being such a lapdog. Then she appeared in Linda Ellerbee's documentary about 24 hour news and the brass at CNN were furious. There's a reason why she's hardly on anymore.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by tynan88

That sounds so classy I LOVE that name, and her accent.

Tynan

Me, too. I'll never forget it when she went after Clinton on live TV. He looked like he was going to **** cement. Homegirl has brass balls, I love her.

[tynan88]

I don't know much about her but from you guys have said she sounds like a REAL journalist, it is a real shame, it isn't just the journalism that is awarded now, it isn't the story that matter, its how it effects the government that matters.

Tynan

[irishgrl]

I think your dig was ill aimed....I cant do any worse with the economy than the Twig already has. I can balance a check book which is more than I can say for the Bumbler and his posse. Also, I think you are being overly optimistic regarding this "recovery" you seem to think is happening. It is NOT happening in MY neck of the woods, and I have yet to see any widespread evidence that things are getting any better, especially for the long haul.
considering the dismal turn things have taken, I think our Government could have used a little advice from the man on the street.
as for this from Diss:

The American people roll over and fetch for the people in charge and it's only gotten worse in the name of partisan politics.

you AINT talkin about me darlin'; I dont roll over and fetch for NO higher ups.
I get on my soapbox and write my representatives and my local paper and donate to worthy causes (mostly environmental) and I hate HATE HATE
the current bunch of Bunglers.
I dont get my news from ANY of the Broadcast Biggies. I listen to NPR or PBS sometimes BBC...I DETEST Fox, I think they are just another incarnation of the Rush Limbaugh talking head mentality.

[strandinthewind]

blah blah blah - use google to find the articles - I am tired of this argument because even if I cite 100 articles you will never believe it

[irishgrl]

Im talking about the fact that all anyone hears about/reads about or knows for their own situation is that things are NOT getting better, they are getting worse. Benefits are being cut, costs are rising, taxes are rising, programs for the poor/students/elderly/minorities are being cut. Bigger and bigger chunks are taken out of my paycheck, and basic needs are getting pricier all the time! I dont know-maybe you live in a bubble. If companies are downsizing and outsourcing, how can you say things are better? My newspaper is filled with articles about companies closing down and moving away, leaving whole towns without a significant employer. Our manufacturing base is non existent. Small to mid-size farms are going under. There's more but what's the point? Not everyone is as fortunate as you, Jason.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Im talking about the fact that all anyone hears about/reads about or knows for their own situation is that things are NOT getting better, they are getting worse. Benefits are being cut, costs are rising, taxes are rising, programs for the poor/students/elderly/minorities are being cut. Bigger and bigger chunks are taken out of my paycheck, and basic needs are getting pricier all the time! I dont know-maybe you live in a bubble. If companies are downsizing and outsourcing, how can you say things are better? My newspaper is filled with articles about companies closing down and moving away, leaving whole towns without a significant employer. Our manufacturing base is non existent. Small to mid-size farms are going under. There's more but what's the point? Not everyone is as fortunate as you, Jason.

Well let's just turn it personal shall we

Whatever

[tynan88]

Ooh shame this had to urn this in to somewhat of a class war, it isn't the aim, if any should be demonstrated by this it is that it is harder for society to function than it should be, ie: a simple comment about the state of the economy has seemingly upset others, what you think?

Tynan

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by tynan88

Ooh shame this had to urn this in to somewhat of a class war, it isn't the aim, if any should be demonstrated by this it is that it is harder for society to function than it should be, ie: a simple comment about the state of the economy has seemingly upset others, what you think?

Tynan

I agree

But, my point was economists are saying that while we are not out of the woods yet, the economy is on the up swing. I realize it is not in all areas, but it is in some. I mean look at that article I posted about Georgia's income tax rev. rising by like 24% and they mention it is because the economy is rebounding. Hopefully, the rest of the country will follow as the indicators indicate it is doing, despite what Mary perceives in her own local area - about which I know nothing and was not in any way commenting on except perhaps in general and hoping it was part of it.

Also, the bust of 90's was far more reaching than I think a lot of people realize. The trillions of lost wealth was devastating. No matter if Gore or anyone else had been Pres., the economy was going to tank and tank hard. I mean how could it not with all that fraud. MCI, one of the largest companies in the world failed because of fraud that should have been caught by the Clinton Administration or Jeb Bush in Fla. - its stock lost all of its value - So many hard working people had that in their retirement plans, etc. And, I am not just talking about people who personally owned it - I am talking about states and other large entities and corporations that had that stock in their pension plans - every dime of the that was lost. Enron was even larger that MCI I believe. The two of those were devastating on their own, but those were not the only two - there were many, many more. Thus, America had to recover from that. The idea that we could just immediately absorb that is just wrong by any economic theory. I mean all that wealth - all those jobs - all those ancillary businesses and personal jobs that were lost as a result of the fraud --- all of that was a large pill to swallow. Thus, the economy was headed for a tank no matter what. Then, we had 9/11 - which essentially shut everything but the news down for two days and killed what was left of the reeling and crashing economy.

Though not a full on depression and almost a double recession - it was pretty bad - not as bad as it sould have been I submit - and that is IMO largely due to Greenspan's brilliant move of lowering the rates to re ignite the already booming housing market and the refinance market. I know more than one person or family who when they realized they were going to lose their jobs or soon thereafter, took equity out of their houses (the average house price rose significantly and in some cases tripled from like 1996 to 2000 ) to live while trying to find another job. So, most sources give the housing market the credit for essentially driving and somewhat saving the US economy from say 1999ish (perhaps 2000 - but the underpinning came in around 1999 or so) until today as rates are still very low by any definition - they will however soon rise as most predict.

I think it is unreasonable to expect America's economy to recover from that in one or two years. I, quite frankly, am surprised it has taken as little as four to get this far.

I think the tax cuts helped provide a spark - at least according to Alan Greenspan who is far more knowledgeable than I am But, Greenspan also has consistently warned W's out of control debt spending will possibly negate any long lasting effect from the tax cut spark.

So, we shall see. I certainly hope it works, but fear the debt may be too much. Plus, with India and, esp., China emerging, the US will most certainly have to be more competitive in wages to stay alive and that means in the end less in payroll, which will help stifle the economy IMO. But, the global competition is not really any Pres.' fault. I get that trade agreements and tariffs can protect us, but that is only a band aid In the end,the US must face this "threat" and deal with it in a feasible way - what that way is I do not know.

But, as they say, only time will. I mean the boom of the 90's was heavily built on the tech boom (though the housing market helped). Problems with that boom (fraud, paying outrageous IPO prices when the company had no HOPE in positive income ever, etc. ) aside, we may get lucky and have a similar thing happen in the latter part of this decade. There may be another internet - another cell phone (which also grew heavily in the 90's) - etc. In sum, Clinton and Congress helped and guided the economy as much as any ruling body in a quai-free market can, as has W and the current Congress in some ways. But, luck has had something to do with it for both - it usually does

NOTE : The Clinton administration is solidly to blame for not catching the fraud - I mean if they can take credit for the economy - they can take credit for it being built on essentially nothing. AND W is responsible for Enron as he was the Gov. of Texas during the fraud just as Clinton was Pres. during the fraud. They both took huge donations as did all politicians on both sides That is why no politician is quick to prosecute Enron or MCI -----SCUM

Anyway - that is my economic ramble for this evening - Enjoy

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

I blame you. You gave us Rupert Murdoch.

No ****.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

No ****.

Again AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by tynan88

I don't think its a bitch fest, personally regardlless of others opinions I am interested in them, I found it amazing to find the American perspective on these issues and am greatful there are enlightened people I can learn from.

For the record I am involved in politics in Australia, and am aiming to get in to parliament, I am a member of the Labor party which has socialist roots and is currently in opposition.

Tynan

Amen brother. If the **** gets too deep here, can you see about getting me a visa?