Anti-evolution teachings gain foothold in U.S. schools - Page 4

estranged4life · #46 12-20-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Please, don't give them any ideas.

when that comes to fruition, Go ahead and pass out the Hitler youth outfits too and be very afraid.

Brian j.

strandinthewind · #47 12-20-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

Ah, gonna sit back and let the boys talk, as usual?

Well, no one else loves the sound of their own typing more (cept me

).

LOL - Diss will say - as he has already said - that religion is a bunch of B.S. and public funds should not be used to teach it. I will then retort that as long as all religions' theories are being taught, no Const.'s ban on establishment of religion is not being violated. Then, it will turn into an argument on the subjective def. of religion. Well, that was easy

amber · #48 12-20-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

LOL - Diss will say - as he has already said - that religion is a bunch of B.S. and public funds should not be used to teach it. I will then retort that as long as all religions' theories are being taught, no Const.'s ban on establishment of religion is not being violated. Then, it will turn into an argument on the subjective def. of religion. Well, that was easy

Indeed.
I would say that while i have seen scientist try to prove aspects of creation with science, it is crappy, crappy, science. They're really reaching. However, when i googled it, I got too much info to wade through at this moment. But there is a reason why this science isn't roundly accepted, i'll submit for now

(maybe i've found something to research during my vacation time from school...

) But you are right, there is "scientific evidence" propounded, that's for sure.

wondergirl9847 · #49 12-20-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Finally, all I am saying is that it hurts no one to teach the two side by side and explain the differences and similarites and let people think for themselves. That concept is just too much for people and the mere mention of it usually provokes yelling

That's what I'm saying too. Teach both sides and let people make their own decisions. That's what diss and so many others want anyways, for people to use the brain God gave them...or in diss's and other's case, the brain they have that evolved from monkeys.

Tee hee!!

Lemme just add that I just cannot look out my window or when I'm on vacation in Colorado especially, look out the car window and look at the majestic mountains, the colors of the sky, the trees, the landscape and think it's all some accident. I'll never believe that...EVAH.

strandinthewind · #50 12-20-2004, 01:11 PM

Ya knew I would just have to post some articles/sites

Seriously, I think they are worth reading even though I do not agree with everything said in all of them.

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

http://www.wie.org/j11/goswami.asp

http://www.secularhumanism.org/libra...hick_21_1.html

http://www.dallasvoice.com/articles/...rticle_ID=4465

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976

Food for Thought!!!!!!

amber · #51 12-20-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

That's what I'm saying too. Teach both sides and let people make their own decisions. That's what diss and so many others want anyways, for people to use the brain God gave them...or in diss's and other's case, the brain they have that evolved from monkeys.

Tee hee!!

I think they don't teach (or didn't) teach creation science because it's not very...strong scientifically? However, i also think that a fair amount of scientist reject at least part of Darwin's theory of evolution as well. It's now more of a...okay, i can't explain it very well so i'll stop for now. (yes, that is a threat of more to come

)

amber · #52 12-20-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Ya knew I would just have to post some articles/sites

Seriously, I think they are worth reading even though I do not agree with everything said in all of them.

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

http://www.wie.org/j11/goswami.asp

http://www.secularhumanism.org/libra...hick_21_1.html

http://www.dallasvoice.com/articles/...rticle_ID=4465

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976

Food for Thought!!!!!!

You are now obligated to post contrary articles to each of these...

wondergirl9847 · #53 12-20-2004, 01:18 PM

"The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to form, but it has always been."

"If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem."

Exactly! How the frick can something come from nothing first of all? And, if you can believe that matter always was, is, will be....why not God???

heyjupiter678 · #54 12-20-2004, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Again, I realize evolution is science, but in it can be seen intelligent deisgn - or at least in theory.

The difference is that evolution is a scientific theory. Intelligent design is a metaphysical theory and should have no place in a high school biology class, IMO.

amber · #55 12-20-2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

"The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to form, but it has always been."

"If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem."

Exactly! How the frick can something come from nothing first of all? And, if you can believe that matter always was, is, will be....why not God???

Indeed, why not god? But, certainly not the bibles creation story. The timeline is all wrong, for one thing. So, yeah, i suppose god could've created the very first forms of life, but i will never believe in the garden of eden, adam, his rib, et al.

GateandGarden · #56 12-20-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyjupiter678

The difference is that evolution is a scientific theory. Intelligent design is a metaphysical theory and should have no place in a high school biology class, IMO.

I agree.

Some of you are maintaining that the idea of a creator is something that should be put out there for people so that they can consider it as well and think for themselves. I agree with that but can only think of one class in which it would be an appropriate unit, and it is not a biology class but a philosophy class. (Obviously, I think it makes sense to teach those ideas in a religious class at a religious institution, but that goes without saying).

Hillary

EnchantedSLN · #57 12-20-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

that man evolved from monkeys

Aaaaah. Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. Evolution does not propose that man "evolved from monkeys." That's a big oversimplification and misconception, and that's why it should be taught in schools

.

Religion has no place in publicly funded schools. That's what parents, private schools, churches, synagogues, and mosques are for. It's fine to place a disclaimer on something and say this may or may not be the case, but really, couldn't you do that with anything? And the concept of a "theory" in science is misleading... just because something is called a "theory" doesn't mean it's just a really good guess. The "theory" of relativity can't technically be proven either, but we have no qualms about teaching that.

GateandGarden · #58 12-20-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnchantedSLN

Aaaaah. Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. Evolution does not propose that man "evolved from monkeys." That's a big oversimplification and misconception, and that's why it should be taught in schools

.

Religion has no place in publicly funded schools. That's what parents, private schools, churches, synagogues, and mosques are for. It's fine to place a disclaimer on something and say this may or may not be the case, but really, couldn't you do that with anything? And the concept of a "theory" in science is misleading... just because something is called a "theory" doesn't mean it's just a really good guess. The "theory" of relativity can't technically be proven either, but we have no qualms about teaching that.

Thank you for all of that. Well put, as always.

Hillary

strandinthewind · #59 12-20-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyjupiter678

The difference is that evolution is a scientific theory. Intelligent design is a metaphysical theory and should have no place in a high school biology class, IMO.

I actually agree with you to a certain degree. But, there is really no way that some kid is not going to raise their hand and ask why evolution is contrary to creationism (intelligent design). I think it is wrong for a teacher to say that they cannot answer that question because the school is funded with public dollars

I think the discussion whould then happen with the emphasis being that evolution is the current accepted scientific method but here are others - all of which are unproven and here is why. I think to dodge the question altogether does not do the education process any favors.

I think the problem is people, including me, are so fed up with these far religous right people trying to cram Christianity (their highly profitable version of it mind you) down the throats of everyone by stirring up hate to fill their coffers. Alas - the battle will rage on

dissention · #60 12-20-2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

"The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to form, but it has always been."

"If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem."

Exactly! How the frick can something come from nothing first of all? And, if you can believe that matter always was, is, will be....why not God???

But you're argument is flawed, Christy. If there is/was a God, he/it would have had to come from something. How could he/it come from nothing to create everything? It defies logic, IMO.