Source: Fingerprints of Jackson, boy on magazines

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/11/jackson/index.html

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Fingerprints of Michael Jackson and those of his accuser have been found on "pornographic magazines" seized during a raid on the pop singer's Neverland ranch, a source familiar with the case told CNN.

Investigators raided Jackson's Los Olivos, California, property based on allegations of child molestation in November 2003 and seized a variety of items from the entertainer's estate, including items from his bedroom and master bath, sources said.

Investigators reportedly found a "collection" of pornographic magazines, and other periodicals in those rooms, and fingerprint testing was later performed on those materials, sources said.

CNN has also learned that authorities seized wine bottles found on the property, and those have been forensically tested as well, sources said.

Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Rodney S. Melville will decide what can be introduced as evidence in the trial, set to begin January 31.

Jackson, 46, has pleaded not guilty to charges of child molestation, conspiracy and giving alcohol to his accuser, a cancer-stricken boy who lived for a time at the ranch.

The boy and his family also claim to have been held captive on the property.

They were also there when Jackson was away, and allegedly had "free run" of the property in the entertainer's absence, a source told CNN.

They were "into everything," crashing golf carts and being generally "disruptive," the source said.

The boy appeared with Jackson in a British television documentary in February 2003.

It is not clear in what room at the ranch that sheriff's investigators found the wine bottles. At a recent court hearing it was disclosed that a hidden wine cellar was build beneath the Neverland arcade. The entrance for the basement-type area was concealed behind a juke box facade, which swung open to reveal the top of a staircase that led down to the cellar.

A week ago, Jackson gave sheriff's investigators a DNA sample at his ranch. The meeting had been arranged by Jackson's defense lawyers, and Jackson cooperated fully, a source said.

[GODDESS6]

in a word:
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!~

[greatdarkwing]

IMHO, there is no crime worse than child molestation...the man should burn!

~Alex

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by greatdarkwing

IMHO, there is no crime worse than child molestation...the man should burn!

~Alex

Not this kind of Child Molestation. I mean yeah this is bad, but this is like first class child molestation. The Child Molestors on the street who abduct and torture chilldren and molest them and occaisonally hurt and KILL them, those guys should burn. MJ should be toasted slightly. I mean getting paid tons of money and getting the treatment these gets get, not comparable in the slightest bit to other cases of child molestation. MJ is sick and this is wrong AND i don't like him in the slightest for his music so don't think I'm defending him because I'm an MJ fan, but there are crimes worse then this.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Not this kind of Child Molestation. I mean yeah this is bad, but this is like first class child molestation. The Child Molestors on the street who abduct and torture chilldren and molest them and occaisonally hurt and KILL them, those guys should burn. MJ should be toasted slightly. I mean getting paid tons of money and getting the treatment these gets get, not comparable in the slightest bit to other cases of child molestation. MJ is sick and this is wrong AND i don't like him in the slightest for his music so don't think I'm defending him because I'm an MJ fan, but there are crimes worse In then this.

Like what?
In a sense what he is doing is worse. He gains their trust and then molests them. The man obviously has some kind of compulsion and the people around him have been enabling him for years-otherwise they kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It is completely sick and twisted. It ruins the victims for life. They are unable to ever trust anyone again and it manifests itself in everything they do from that point forward. Most molestation victims know their abuser.
It will be interesting to see how his defense team will spin this.

[Johnny Stew]

I think someone who harms a child should be punished severely, no matter what.
Having lavished your victims with gifts, etc., doesn't alleviate the severity of what you've done. Pampering them while abusing them is simply some sort of warped rationalization.

If Michael Jackson is guilty of this crime... and circumstantial evidence, at least, has always been pretty damning... then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I think someone who harms a child should be punished severely, no matter what.
Having lavished your victims with gifts, etc., doesn't alleviate the severity of what you've done. Pampering them while abusing them is simply some sort of warped rationalization.

If Michael Jackson is guilty of this crime... and circumstantial evidence, at least, has always been pretty damning... then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Molestors also cannot be rehabilitated so when they get out of jail they will offend again. They should get life, IMO. This crime is extremely insidious because often those who were abused become abusers and the awful cycle continues.

[BTFLCHLD]

IMO, anyone who is guilty of causing harm to a child, the punishment should be severe.

I would like to comment on magazine fingerprints being used as evidence. I myself have stumbled upon a room where there were magazines of illicit content (okay already it was a playboy! HA!) and flipped through a few pages....say the person is arrested for some type of sexual crime...could I then guilty by finger association?

[strandinthewind]

This evidence DIRECTLY links MJ to his accuser in a sexual situation. It will be VERY hard for MJ to refute this. His ONLY argument is the accuser found the mag. and looked at it without MJ knowing it. After all, fingerprints alone cannot establish the time they were put there. I suppose that situation is possible and it is even possible that the accuser looked for the mag and put his prints there on purpose (remember this accuser's family (I think this is the same one) has tried to extort before) - This defense, however, will fail because MJ will have to take the stand to refute it and the cross will go something like this "why were the porno mags accessible in ANY way to minors, which you admittedly have there ALL of the time - and how did they even know about them." - I cannot think of a good response to that - can anyone here Also, it will be interesting to see what the actual content of the mag. is. Playboy is one thing, but there are others that are for fetishes, etc. MJ is in trouble here and unless the jury believes some sort of "plot" against MJ (which I doubt they will based on the evidence I have seen - which granted is not all of it) - he will go to jail.

Also, it will be interesting to see what other tests of the mag. reveal. It could be the accuser's fingerprints reveal he had the same lubricant on his hands as MJ (assuming MJ's reveal lubricant)

Again, I just do not see MJ getting away from this DAMNING evidence.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

His ONLY argument is the accuser found the mag. and looked at it without MJ knowing it. After all, fingerprints alone cannot establish the time they were put there.

Exactly. They shared a bedroom together on more than one occasion and the kid could have found it under Jacko's mattress while Jacko was in the bathroom brushing his teeth or bleaching his face. This is some pretty piss-poor evidence, IMO, and even though I think he's guilty as sin, I don't see this "evidence" as any such thing. It doesn't prove molestation in the least, it only proves that Jacko neglected his duty to protect children from such material while in his home. It's damning in that manner, but not when it comes to sexual molestation. I sure hope this isn't all the prosecution has or else they'll be looking at a hard case to win. And if Jacko is convicted on this alone, he'll have a ball when he appeals his conviction.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It could be the accuser's fingerprints reveal he had the same lubricant on his hands as MJ (assuming MJ's reveal lubricant)

You think of everything...right down to the LUBE!!!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Exactly. They shared a bedroom together on more than one occasion and the kid could have found it under Jacko's mattress while Jacko was in the bathroom brushing his teeth or bleaching his face. This is some pretty piss-poor evidence, IMO, and even though I think he's guilty as sin, I don't see this "evidence" as any such thing. It doesn't prove molestation in the least, it only proves that Jacko neglected his duty to protect children from such material while in his home. It's damning in that manner, but not when it comes to sexual molestation. I sure hope this isn't all the prosecution has or else they'll be looking at a hard case to win. And if Jacko is convicted on this alone, he'll have a ball when he appeals his conviction.

I agree - I wish it were stronger - and it may be that once all tests are run, etc. BUT - the reason I think it is daming is MJ will HAVE to take the stand to refute it - and trust me, MJ has no intent of EVER taking the stand - it would be suicide for him to do so because he cannot then avoid the prosecutor's leading questions. No one else can do this for him because his prints are on the mag. I suppose he could have a servant testify that the mags. were kept under lock and key - but then how did the boy get access to it without MJ giving it to him. Finally, most peds show their victims some sort of porn to get them aroused and them they make their move.

Again, I just do not see how Jackson is going to explain this one away, esp. considering public sentiment for the most part has already convicted him and his actions have done NOTHING to stop that.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree - I wish it were stronger - and it may be that once all tests are run, etc. BUT - the reason I think it is daming is MJ will HAVE to take the stand to refute it - and trust me, MJ has no intent of EVER taking the stand - it would be suicide for him to do so because he cannot then avoid the prosecutor's leading questions. No one else can do this for him because his prints are on the mag. I suppose he could have a servant testify that the mags. were kept under lock and key - but then how did the boy get access to it without MJ giving it to him. Finally, most peds show their victims some sort of porn to get them aroused and them they make their move.

Again, I just do not see how Jackson is going to explain this one away, esp. considering public sentiment for the most part has already convicted him and his actions have done NOTHING to stop that.

I think it all depends on all of the evidence that the prosectuion has. As much as I'd like to see the sick bastard locked up, I have the feeling that the prosecution just doesn't have a heckuva lot to work with. I've gotten the feeling from day one that this whole thing was a scavenger hunt and just now they've found some potentially damning evidence. BUT - if this is all they really have, Jacko has absolutely nothing to worry about. It could be taken care of and done away with in the closing argument in the same manner that the two of us explained it away above.

So, while I do think he will be found guilty and should be found guilty, it shouldn't be on this ****ty evidence.

On another note, I was watching CNN yesterday morning when this broke and the news alert they had was as if Osama had been captured. And the headline was so salacious and distasteful: "Jacko's Prints Found On Porn Mags."

[amber]

I feel like I saw on the news that they found pretty compelling evidence to do the original massive search. They had not been able to bring this to trial before, so I think they really found something fairly hot to be able to go ahead with the investigation, et. al.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree - I wish it were stronger - and it may be that once all tests are run, etc. BUT - the reason I think it is daming is MJ will HAVE to take the stand to refute it - and trust me, MJ has no intent of EVER taking the stand - it would be suicide for him to do so because he cannot then avoid the prosecutor's leading questions. No one else can do this for him because his prints are on the mag. I suppose he could have a servant testify that the mags. were kept under lock and key - but then how did the boy get access to it without MJ giving it to him. Finally, most peds show their victims some sort of porn to get them aroused and them they make their move.

Again, I just do not see how Jackson is going to explain this one away, esp. considering public sentiment for the most part has already convicted him and his actions have done NOTHING to stop that.

Yeah, taking the stand would be suicide for him because every time he opens his mouth he digs himself in deeper. Good point about molester's common use of porn which, hopefully, the prosecution will use in its arguments.