Spoiler-Chris Isaak-Christmas!

[Serrart]

First of all, I think this is great thread, thanks to all.
All I can say is that when I look at Stevie I see her talent, the path she's made till now, in her life and art.

The voice she has now (that I find breathtaking, I get from it many more emotions than from her seventies voice ) comes from a series of choices, good and bad, that made her the person and the artist she is, an absolutely amazing one, IMO.

Obviously, I would love to see her win tons of Grammies, sell millions of albums more, and to be elected best artist from every possible league of snob critics, but i wouldn't worry too much if it won't happen. What I care more about, is that she still loves writing and performing, that after years of great pain, she can create masterpieces like TISL and Illume or make of Beautiful Child live such a prodigy.

Not that I don't have my opinions on her clothes or shoes but Stevie Nicks' ways of being an artist are very personal, inspiring and unique, and it wouldn't change anything for me, if she would walk through them in black dresses and Frankenboks, jeans and boots, or Armani suits. JMHO.

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Serrart

First of all, I think this is great thread, thanks to all.
All I can say is that when I look at Stevie I see her talent, the path she's made till now, in her life and art.

The voice she has now (that I find breathtaking, I get from it many more emotions than from her seventies voice ) comes from a series of choices, good and bad, that made her the person and the artist she is, an absolutely amazing one, IMO.

Obviously, I would love to see her win tons of Grammies, sell millions of albums more, and to be elected best artist from every possible league of snob critics, but i wouldn't worry too much if it won't happen. What I care more about, is that she still loves writing and performing, that after years of great pain, she can create masterpieces like TISL and Illume or make of Beautiful Child live such a prodigy.

Not that I don't have my opinions on her clothes or shoes but Stevie Nicks' ways of being an artist are very personal, inspiring and unique, and it wouldn't change anything for me, if she would walk through them in black dresses and Frankenboks, jeans and boots, or Armani suits. JMHO.

Thank you for that, Romy. I really admire those who can say in just a few paragraphs or sentences, what it takes me page after page of dissertation to only begin to convey.

Brevity is not one of my stronger suits.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Now, don't get me wrong, she can still nail those songs... but she certainly has lost her upper range.

I would consider saying "losing her upper range" means losing an octave - or at least 4-6 notes of an octave. You must be hearing a completely different thing than me. Stevie has lost the better part of an octave, if not an entire octave. Ann has lost a few notes, and that's it. Certain shows I have seen, she hits every single note, and isn't shifting down the key two steps. Maybe I am a music geek for knowing this, but that's what my ears tell me. Anyone with a music degree want to weigh in on this one ?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

I would consider saying "losing her upper range" means losing an octave - or at least 4-6 notes of an octave. You must be hearing a completely different thing than me. Stevie has lost the better part of an octave, if not an entire octave. Ann has lost a few notes, and that's it. Certain shows I have seen, she hits every single note, and isn't shifting down the key two steps. Maybe I am a music geek for knowing this, but that's what my ears tell me. Anyone with a music degree want to weigh in on this one ?

Well, I studied voice for a long time. To me, it sounds like Ann wisely realizes she is older and to hit every single high and super high note. For her age, considering that she lived in the hard partying 70's, and thast she was overweight and has lost a bunch (that can affect the voice - mostly in stamina) - her voice defies all norms and is clearly exceptional, esp. considering she still hits 99% of the high and really high notes.

A good example of someone whose voice lost the entire upper range is La Streisand. Take the song "People." When she goes to hit that last "WOOOOORRRRHHHOORRRRLLLLLLLLDDDDDDD" It used to be an octave higher. Now, she sounds like she is singing in the key of "Ole Man River"

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Thank you for that, Romy. I really admire those who can say in just a few paragraphs or sentences, what it takes me page after page of dissertation to only begin to convey.

Brevity is not one of my stronger suits.

Thank you Johnny, even if my brevity is more a necessity than a quality, it's supposed to make me avoid as many errors in English as I can, and doesn't even work that well, unfortunately!

By the way, for me a great thing on the Ledge it's to read posts from people who are able to express in such a honest and witty way their opinions, as you and many others do.

Romy

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

A good example of someone whose voice lost the entire upper range is La Streisand. Take the song "People." When she goes to hit that last "WOOOOORRRRHHHOORRRRLLLLLLLLDDDDDDD" It used to be an octave higher. Now, she sounds like she is singing in the key of "Ole Man River"

Really? The last time I listened to her was 10 years ago in a concert aired on TV, and I didn't notice; now I'm curious, I should still have it somewhere. It wasn't a bad show: I remember vividly Robert Redford images from The Way We Were

Romy

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I'm a pretty big Heart fan... though not quite to the degree of my Mac/Stevie fandom, but Ann has definitely lost more than two notes from her range based on the various concert vids and live CDs I have.

She shies away from the highest parts of "Magic Man," "Crazy On You," "Barracuda" and several others.
Now, don't get me wrong, she can still nail those songs... but she certainly has lost her upper range.

Darling, would you even know a b-flat from an f-sharp? Miss Wilson has lost a few notes here and there, nothing more and nothing less. She's maintained her voice in a manner that would shock most singers.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Really? The last time I listened to her was 10 years ago in a concert aired on TV, and I didn't notice; now I'm curious, I should still have it somewhere. It wasn't a bad show: I remember vividly Robert Redford images from The Way We Were

Romy

I just remember being shocked at how low it was compared to 20 years ago. The same cannot be said for the Wilson girl, who sings in the same range as she did then

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, I studied voice for a long time. To me, it sounds like Ann wisely realizes she is older and to hit every single high and super high note. For her age, considering that she lived in the hard partying 70's, and thast she was overweight and has lost a bunch (that can affect the voice - mostly in stamina) - her voice defies all norms and is clearly exceptional, esp. considering she still hits 99% of the high and really high notes.

Indeed she does. It was driving me nuts, so I got out my guitar and a recent live Heart recording from the last 6 months. They do "What About Love". If anyone is familiar with the song, in the last few moments, Miss Wilson does this little trill and goes into her head voice. She nails a high C in this little segment more than once. Still does it. In "Black on Black", the chorus melody is alternating between E, F#, and G. She even bitch slaps an A and a B a few times just for fun. That is one half step below high C, which is about the highest she ever sang on record. In that song, she does this in the chorus. It is repeated about five times throughout the song. They alternate songs on tour, so she may not sing it every night. Has she lost her upper range ? Methinks not.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sparky

Indeed she does. It was driving me nuts, so I got out my guitar and a recent live Heart recording from the last 6 months. They do "What About Love". If anyone is familiar with the song, in the last few moments, Miss Wilson does this little trill and goes into her head voice. She nails a high C in this little segment more than once. Still does it. In "Black on Black", the chorus melody is alternating between E, F#, and G. She even bitch slaps an A and a B a few times just for fun. That is one half step below high C, which is about the highest she ever sang on record. In that song, she does this in the chorus. It is repeated about five times throughout the song. They alternate songs on tour, so she may not sing it every night. Has she lost her upper range ? Methinks not.

Fabulous example, darling. Black On Black is one of her best vocals, her voice is sterling on that track.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

Indeed she does. It was driving me nuts, so I got out my guitar and a recent live Heart recording from the last 6 months. They do "What About Love". If anyone is familiar with the song, in the last few moments, Miss Wilson does this little trill and goes into her head voice. She nails a high C in this little segment more than once. Still does it. In "Black on Black", the chorus melody is alternating between E, F#, and G. She even bitch slaps an A and a B a few times just for fun. That is one half step below high C, which is about the highest she ever sang on record. In that song, she does this in the chorus. It is repeated about five times throughout the song. They alternate songs on tour, so she may not sing it every night. Has she lost her upper range ? Methinks not.

Yep - and she stays in that range and BELTS from the diaphram. She reallty is a case study on a God given talent. I mean she is in her 50's (I think) and she certainly has lived the rock and roll life (at least in the beginning). I am in NOTHING but AWE of her voice. SHEEBUS!!!!!!

[ricohv]

I really know nothing technically about music (certainly not a B sharp or an F flat or whatever) but I know this: Ann Wilson can belt it out, she can be a real rock n roller and even kind of a blues mama. I don't know about her vocal training, but her and her sister can play about any instrument and play it well. She seems to me like she'd be one of these people who had operatic training but then went into rock (a la Pat Benatar). I seem to remember always hearing that Pat had an 8 octave range (?) or whatever Mariah Carey has (but so what-just cuz you've got it doesn't mean you should cover the whole range in every single song!) but to me Ann seemed to have the same range as Pat (maybe?) but could be a way stronger powerhouse.
Going back in the threads a bit about wanting Stevie to get Grammies and have more respect...I think in that regard she has "came out the other end" of her image/vocal disrespect. She'd have to have came into prominence 10 years earlier to be considered in the Mitchell/Dylan league. And sometimes she almost reaches that level of respect IMO. I think the Dance was when things started to turn around. All of a sudden she was everywhere again (and everyone loves a successful comeback-that seems to be when they really start getting respected). With up n comers mentioning her as an influence and covering her songs, and then following up the Dance with TISL, which to my eyes got the best solo reviews of her career, and designers mentioning her flatteringly and paying homage to her with their lines-she's done great. Sure TISL din't sell like Bella Donna-but has Joni Mitchell ever had an album that sold like Bella Donna? Has Joni had a top 5 album in the last 20 years or been on a tour that grossed #3 in tour business for the year? So Stevie, although not getting the hit singles we want to see in the Billboard Hot 100 (and never will again...I mean really) is doing still better than any of her contemporaries (check the sales figures of Heart's or Pat Benatar's albums-yeah, betcha didn't even know Pat still cranks out an album every couple years! But they flop...bigtime!).

[Somajoseph]

It's nice to see that Ann Wilson has alot of fans here on The Ledge. Heart was the first live show I ever saw, way back in 1978. They gave a very rousing performance, and I loved Ann's vocals and Nancy's guitar playing. It was great to see them right up front..they both had, and have a very powerful stage presence.
And as much as I love Stevie & Christine, the Wilson sisters seem to have the edge on them live. That's not a put down of Stevie or Christine in any way, alot of it has to do with the differences in their writing.
Stevie's power is hard to pinpoint on just one thing. Her voice, though not as capable of singing those high notes, is in fact, probably alot more expressive. I remember reading a review of Tusk when it came out and the reviewer called Stevie's voice a fascinating instrument, and I couldnt agree more.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by sparky

I would consider saying "losing her upper range" means losing an octave - or at least 4-6 notes of an octave. You must be hearing a completely different thing than me. Stevie has lost the better part of an octave, if not an entire octave. Ann has lost a few notes, and that's it. Certain shows I have seen, she hits every single note, and isn't shifting down the key two steps. Maybe I am a music geek for knowing this, but that's what my ears tell me. Anyone with a music degree want to weigh in on this one ?

Originally Posted by dissention

Darling, would you even know a b-flat from an f-sharp? Miss Wilson has lost a few notes here and there, nothing more and nothing less. She's maintained her voice in a manner that would shock most singers.

A b-flat? An f-sharp? What is this strange language in which you're speaking? I'm not edumacated enough to understand.

I'm not saying Ann Wilson sounds like Barry White these days... which is sure what you guys make it seem like I said. I'm just saying that I do believe she's lost more than just two notes from her register.

There are parts in the various songs that I mentioned in which she shies away from the highest of the high notes (and a couple of times I noticed that Nancy was actually singing a part higher than Ann) or sounds a little thin on them.
That's not to say that she doesn't still have an AMAZING range... just that I do believe she has lost more than two notes from the upper end of it.

But, again, I'm too dumb to know otherwise, so....

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It almost sounds as if we don't have enough trust in her to make her own decisions.

Frankly, I don't. The lyrics to Silver Girl ? The fact that she even recorded Everyday ? Granted, that was probably a business deal, but that song was a world class stinker from the word go. I shan't go on.

I'd love for her to have the same level of respect that Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan have (though I'm reminded of the fact that neither of them are universally loved either), but I don't think she ever will.

Well, she ain't dead yet. But she isn't likely to get there copping lines from a dead Englishman ("It was the best of times, it was the worst of times") or using phrases that would get a student flunked out of a high school English course("Oooh it's just like a river, oooh it's never ending"). She's got it in her. She just doesn't edit herself. And she ought to use a thesaurus. Or at least a rhyming dictionary.

I think the fact that Stevie was so closely connected to her visual image for so many years, sort of made it impossible for her to ever be THAT respected. So I tend to think that she's as respected now as she's ever going to be.

That held water in her early career, when critics who were either chauvinist men or ugly women hated her for purely personal reasons. If the writing is there - respect happens. The really great songs get covered, which I have noted before, and almost everyone scoffs at. The rest get ignored by most all but us, the fanatics. Again, striking words and interesting music could get her that level of respect.

But, ironically, now that she's toned all that down... maintaining a simpler hairstyle, wearing comfortable footwear that still gives her the height she likes, and donning a more basic stage "uniform" which retains some of the classic "Stevie Nicks Style" but doesn't take it over the top, the hue and cry from the fan base is deafening.

Makes you wonder who the shallow ones are, huh ? The fans or the critics ?

That whole "rock and roll ballerina" thing made her seem fluffy, and the metaphysical and surreal themes that she peppers her songs with makes her come across to many people as being "hippy-dippy."

People never called Kate Bush dippy, or Lorenna McKennitt, and even Tori Amos doesn't get that. The difference perhaps being a higher degree of authentic literary references, more sophisticated chord choices, and the fact that they don't use words like WELL for emotional emphasis. Or refer to love or pain being like a river.

Had she never adopted them (or dropped them much earlier in her career), she may be more respected today, like Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan. But if she had never had those aspects about her, then she may not have never acheived the level of recognition she has these days.

Well, Joni dressed like a flower child and wrote about clouds and butterflies(in a few songs anyways). Dylan looked like he rolled out of a dumpster and has always had a voice like a frog. The difference is the material. They explored, and did things that were wildly unpopular. I think they are both authentic "artists" with little interest in the mainstream. The focus of both these artists work was always much larger than themselves. The entire range of human experience and different characters became their canvases. Therefore, the scope of their work has a different kind of resonance. It speaks about the whole culture, and truly about the most important historical movements, both political and personal, of the late 20th century. Stevie never set out to do that. Her work, ulitmately, is always really about herself, when you get down to it. Moving, frequently. Always about her, yup. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it keeps her way out of their league.

I just don't understand the opinion we often convey that WE somehow know better than Stevie does when it comes to HER life and career.

Oh, don't get me started. Everyday and Silver Girl are the tip of the iceberg. As a matter of fact, I do think I sometimes know better than her how to run her career. A lot of people do. That's why artists have managers and agents.
As far as her life goes...well, the coke and Klonopin would both be potshots, wouldn't they ? I won't take that one another step.