Stevie & Bette

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by dissention

I loved Kael, regardless if I agreed with her in her reviews.

No one could ever match her reviews and no one, in my opinion, ever will. She was brilliant. Some of the things she wrote were so vicious but so witty and true.

Yeah, I know, she was definitely the best, who discovered and launched the career of all the New Hollywood Gods ... but sometimes she was so damn harsh that made me want to close her in a room to watch her beloved The Sound Of Music again and again.

Romy

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

No one could ever match her reviews and no one, in my opinion, ever will. She was brilliant. Some of the things she wrote were so vicious but so witty and true.

Real criticism is a vicious & witty endeavor.

Something stony & static set in with Kael round about 1978. She's peppery & pugnacious from her '65 book through, say, "Reeling" & even parts of "When the Lights Go Down." But after that, she recycles her tone & stance until you're not sure whether you're reading the real Kael or a female impersonator magpie of Kael.

But those were the glory years of American movie criticism: the '60s & early '70s, when Dwight Macdonald & Stanley Kauffmann & Kael & John Simon & others had most of us running to read the reviews without even bothering to see the movies.

I've got a CD of Kael, Simon & Macdonald discussing films & directors in a panel format in San Francisco in 1965. What a treat it is to hear these three swapping quips & sly insults for the audience!

I have 18,000 books of movie criticism & steal from them often.

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

It's the movie that actually made Pauline Kael retire. She once said that after years of seeing and reviewing films, she saw Scenes From A Mall and finally just got fed up with seeing good actors (she was a big Bette fan, but hated Allen after Stardust Memories) star in bad movies. She said that there was nothing new she could add in her reviews, that it all became repetitive. So, she threw in the towel.

Her decision to retire was a combination of that & her Parkinson's, which made it more & more difficult to get into the city to see movies.

But surely you are exaggerating to say that Kael hated Woody Allen after "Stardust Memories." She loved & lauded several Woody Allen movies after "Stardust": "The Purple Rose of Cairo," "Zelig," "Manhattan Murder Mystery," some of "Husbands & Wives."

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

But surely you are exaggerating to say that Kael hated Woody Allen after "Stardust Memories." She loved & lauded several Woody Allen movies after "Stardust": "The Purple Rose of Cairo," "Zelig," "Manhattan Murder Mystery," some of "Husbands & Wives."

It's no secret that he positively loathed her after the Stardust Memories (and it was awful) debacle. Regardless if she heaped a fair amount of praise on his other films, she never failed to mention Stardust Memories or the fact that he'd lost his magic; it may have been subtle, but her reviews of his films dripped with disgust when it came to Allen. She wasn't so subtle when it came to her disdain for him personally. Kael led the attacks.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

But you have a thing for bloated old fools like Val Kilmer, so...

Now, a little water and Altoids diet wouldn't hurt Val.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Yes, they are definitely friends. I was at the "Kiss My Brass" show at America West Arena last night and I saw Stevie. Bette gave her a big ups, and she said how much she loves Stevie. Bette always gives 110% but last night she went the extra 200% because Stevie was in da house. No doubt about it. It was the best show I've ever seen. Sorry, Stevie.

Ahhh very cool...thanks for sharing

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

He sabotaged his own career with his diva behavior and ****ty attitude.

Indeed he did. I have a friend who worked on the Batman movie with him who says he would rather change careers than ever work with Kilmer again. BUT, I worked with him on a film awhile back and thought and he was fairly nice. Absolutely NUTS, and definitely a showboat, but nice enough.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

But I'm partial to I Think It's Going To Rain Today.

I love that song. She is going to be performing in So Cal soon, and I may even venture behind the Orange Curtain to see her.

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by dissention

I so can't picture Stevie at a Bette concert. She must have blushed at the filthy jokes.

What were your favorite songs from last night? The Clooney ones are spectacular. But I'm partial to I Think It's Going To Rain Today...glad she pulled out Midnight In Memphis again.

Yeah, she did those. The Rosemary Clooney tribute is superb. I didn't mind her not doing a lot of her own standards, but I was disappointed she dropped Stay With Me. It's my favorite.

As far as Stevie blushing at the jokes, I don't think she blushed when Bette looked right where she was sitting and said "Before we get into the serious stuff, if any of you have a dried up 30 year old doob at the bottom of your purse, now's the time to fire it up."

[amber]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

"Before we get into the serious stuff, if any of you have a dried up 30 year old doob at the bottom of your purse, now's the time to fire it up."

Bwahahahahahahahaaa!!!! Excellent!

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Yeah, she did those. The Rosemary Clooney tribute is superb. I didn't mind her not doing a lot of her own standards, but I was disappointed she dropped Stay With Me. It's my favorite.

As far as Stevie blushing at the jokes, I don't think she blushed when Bette looked right where she was sitting and said "Before we get into the serious stuff, if any of you have a dried up 30 year old doob at the bottom of your purse, now's the time to fire it up."

That's SO great I love it

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Yeah, she did those. The Rosemary Clooney tribute is superb. I didn't mind her not doing a lot of her own standards, but I was disappointed she dropped Stay With Me. It's my favorite.

As far as Stevie blushing at the jokes, I don't think she blushed when Bette looked right where she was sitting and said "Before we get into the serious stuff, if any of you have a dried up 30 year old doob at the bottom of your purse, now's the time to fire it up."

Gotta love Bette. It must have been a fantastic concert.

Romy

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

That's SO great I love it

I hit the floor and couldn't see her reaction, but I'd venture a guess Stevie was right down there with me. Hilarious!

.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Yeah, she did those. The Rosemary Clooney tribute is superb. I didn't mind her not doing a lot of her own standards, but I was disappointed she dropped Stay With Me. It's my favorite.

As far as Stevie blushing at the jokes, I don't think she blushed when Bette looked right where she was sitting and said "Before we get into the serious stuff, if any of you have a dried up 30 year old doob at the bottom of your purse, now's the time to fire it up."

She said the same thing at one of my shows, only she looked right at a group of old ladies when she said it.

I love Stay With Me. The ones from Divine Madness and Art or Bust are my faves. I can imagine her dropping it, though, that's a really intense song. I wish she'd haul out and do the E Street Shuffle/Summertime/Leader of the Pack medley again. I'd give my left nut to hear it again.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sparky

I love that song. She is going to be performing in So Cal soon, and I may even venture behind the Orange Curtain to see her.

Oh, it's worth it. Her current show is the biggest and loudest one EVER. She'll have you tired at the end of her three hours onstage. She'll have you in the palm of her hand when she enters the stage from the rafters on a carousel horse.