New Stevie track for download!!

[wondergirl9847]

Originally Posted by dissention

Wish those damned background singers weren't on it, though, they are annoying as all hell. But, then again, I hate most of the background singers most of the time.

I think Stevie sounds best when she's harmonizing with herself. Obviously, she can't do that live (LOL), but on record.....nicks (hehe) the background singers.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Which is ironic, because I don't think the 'SYW' "Thrown Down" sounds "plodding" at all... I think it moves along at a nice, slinky pace, which is just right for the sensuous vibe of the song.
"Plodding" has always been a description I've reserved for "Save Me A Place," which you love... so go figure!



This actually brings up an interesting question (though hopefully not another Ledge war):
Since so many fans seem to prefer Stevie's solo outtake of "Running Through The Garden," what we now know is a solo version of "Thrown Down," her piano demo of "Goodbye Baby," and the "angry" version of "Smile At You" (which Ken Caillat has gone on record as saying was NOT recorded by Fleetwood Mac, but rather by Stevie's solo band, and a guitarist recreating Lindsey's style -- much to Lindsey's annoyance), and since so many people dislike the "altered voices" effects in "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out"....

Is Lindsey not quite as in-tune with what's best for Stevie's songs as he used to be?

Let me go on record as saying that, personally, I prefer Lindsey's production on all the aforementioned songs, above any of the earlier recordings. In every case.
But I've noticed quite a few other fans... even some of the bigger Buckingham fans... stating that they were less-than-thrilled with the production and arrangement touches on Stevie's 'SYW' songs. So it has me wondering.

Here comes the rockets - run for life cried the mad hatter

Seriously, I think alot of the mellower vibe to SMA came from Stevie. I have nothing to base this on - its just a feeling

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

on the LB board that a copy of the ACLU disc (With the original LB solo version of "Peacekeeper" & Stevie's "Touched By An Angel") was up for auction on eBay....It sold for $9.99 (Which IMO is a bargain)

Brian j.

lol In my obsessiveness I'd already bought it.

[Dreammms]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I have to admit, though, I'd never thought about dissention's suggestion that it was meant to be a Stevie solo with Lindsey as a guest. To have him guest on a song about him, in such a powerful way - that would have been AWESOME!

wait wasnt that thrown down supposed to be on TISL????
that's what i always thought

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

This actually brings up an interesting question (though hopefully not another Ledge war):
Since so many fans seem to prefer Stevie's solo outtake of "Running Through The Garden," what we now know is a solo version of "Thrown Down," her piano demo of "Goodbye Baby," and the "angry" version of "Smile At You" (which Ken Caillat has gone on record as saying was NOT recorded by Fleetwood Mac, but rather by Stevie's solo band, and a guitarist recreating Lindsey's style -- much to Lindsey's annoyance), and since so many people dislike the "altered voices" effects in "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out"....

Is Lindsey not quite as in-tune with what's best for Stevie's songs as he used to be?

Let me go on record as saying that, personally, I prefer Lindsey's production on all the aforementioned songs, above any of the earlier recordings. In every case.
But I've noticed quite a few other fans... even some of the bigger Buckingham fans... stating that they were less-than-thrilled with the production and arrangement touches on Stevie's 'SYW' songs. So it has me wondering.

I loved Lindsey's production on the album, with maybe the only exception of Illume, that it cried for an acoustic arrangement, IMO.

About the mix, I would have much preferred Chris Lord-Alge for all Stevie's songs. His choices seem to me much more creative, and the work he did on TISL is superb.

Romy

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

This actually brings up an interesting question (though hopefully not another Ledge war):
Since so many fans seem to prefer Stevie's solo outtake of "Running Through The Garden," what we now know is a solo version of "Thrown Down," her piano demo of "Goodbye Baby," and the "angry" version of "Smile At You" (which Ken Caillat has gone on record as saying was NOT recorded by Fleetwood Mac, but rather by Stevie's solo band, and a guitarist recreating Lindsey's style -- much to Lindsey's annoyance)

Ken's completely misinformed!

Is Lindsey not quite as in-tune with what's best for Stevie's songs as he used to be?

Yes, I think so. He's not even quite as in tune with what's best for his own stuff as he used to be.

However, I like "Thrown Down" on the album. It's just about 22 years too late.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

This actually brings up an interesting question (though hopefully not another Ledge war):
Since so many fans seem to prefer Stevie's solo outtake of "Running Through The Garden," what we now know is a solo version of "Thrown Down," her piano demo of "Goodbye Baby," and the "angry" version of "Smile At You" (which Ken Caillat has gone on record as saying was NOT recorded by Fleetwood Mac, but rather by Stevie's solo band, and a guitarist recreating Lindsey's style -- much to Lindsey's annoyance), and since so many people dislike the "altered voices" effects in "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out"....

Ken's wrong, but I'll stay on point.

I prefer Goodbye Baby on the album, I think the production is perfection. I can't bear listening to her pound on a beautiful piano like a five year old who's had too much candy on the demos.

The only thing I prefer on the RTTG outtake is her voice and the duleing vocals. It has nothing to do with production, really, since they're essentially the same (but the SYW version is better). I suspect that it was intentional for the production to be plastic.

Smile At You is great and I think it blows away the angry demo, which I never liked (too much screaming). The guitar at the end makes the song for me.

The altered voices bother me, always have. However, the blame lies on both their shoulders. Stevie certainly wouldn't let him do something she didn't like to her "children."

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Is Lindsey not quite as in-tune with what's best for Stevie's songs as he used to be?

I don't think either of them are, honestly, but I *shudder* to think what most of them would sound like in the hands of John Shanks or Mike Campbell. No thank you.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Let me go on record as saying that, personally, I prefer Lindsey's production on all the aforementioned songs, above any of the earlier recordings. In every case.

I do, too.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by dissention

Peacekeeper was mangled beyond recognition. As for Stevie being so up front in the mix, what do you think of the remix from Europe (Tin Tin or something like that)? Oy vey, I can barely hear Lindsey. And something about the vocal at the end of the song, he sounds like he's eating and singing at the same time.

I went back and listened to it - Stevie is so loud - ugh! But it is a little peppier, so it's not all bad. The closest we'll get to a dance mix of Peacekeeper.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

This actually brings up an interesting question (though hopefully not another Ledge war):
Since so many fans seem to prefer Stevie's solo outtake of "Running Through The Garden," what we now know is a solo version of "Thrown Down," her piano demo of "Goodbye Baby," and the "angry" version of "Smile At You" (which Ken Caillat has gone on record as saying was NOT recorded by Fleetwood Mac, but rather by Stevie's solo band, and a guitarist recreating Lindsey's style -- much to Lindsey's annoyance), and since so many people dislike the "altered voices" effects in "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out"....

Is Lindsey not quite as in-tune with what's best for Stevie's songs as he used to be?

Let me go on record as saying that, personally, I prefer Lindsey's production on all the aforementioned songs, above any of the earlier recordings. In every case.
But I've noticed quite a few other fans... even some of the bigger Buckingham fans... stating that they were less-than-thrilled with the production and arrangement touches on Stevie's 'SYW' songs. So it has me wondering.

I don't know if you're necessarily referring to me as one of the folks you're talking about, but I know I have complained about some of the above. As I've said before, I prefer his take on Thrown Down and I love the addition of his guitar work on RTTG, althoguh I admit I missed the overlapping vocals "Never did I mean to (until she herself) imprison you (became the deadliest poison)" - that's so cool. Otherwise the SYW version is better.

Regarding Smile At You and Illume.... I'll be frank here.... Lindsey botched them. Don't tell me those unnatural sounds and freakish vocals were Stevie's idea. I'm sure he sold her on it, but it was his idea. And it was a bad one.

Regarding EFO - I adore that mix. It rocks. The echo vocal really works.

So, what's my assessment? I still think Lindsey can take Stevie's songs to places they'd never get to otherwise. I love what he does to MOST of her songs. However, sometimes, it appears he can get out of control and take them TOO far. That's reflected in his own work, when it gets over-produced and gimmicky, and his own self-indulgences occasionally spill over onto Stevie's music when he's producing it. When he controls his tendency to do that, he's still the best there is.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by David

Ken's completely misinformed!

Originally Posted by dissention

Ken's wrong, but I'll stay on point.

It sure seems like he has to be wrong on that one, yet he seemed pretty positive that it was never recorded by Fleetwood Mac during the years he was around.

I've always thought it sounded like Fleetwood Mac, and not some group of session players trying to sound like Fleetwood Mac.

I'd love some proof one way or the other. Although I guess the fact that master copies of the song surfaced with other Mac demos and outtakes should be proof enough.

[wondergirl9847]

I agree about the dueling vocals on RTTG, I LOVE that on the demo...wish they had stayed, but I like it on SYW too.

Smile at You...that song kicks no matter what, so I love all versions. Each version has something great to offer.

The only song I'm peeved about is PK, because his solo version is just WAYYYYYYYYY (infinity) better than the SYW version.

Goodbye Baby bothers me because she seems off beat or something, and the ticking doesn't help. LOL I like the song, but the rhythm seems off to me.

[blinker12]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

This actually brings up an interesting question (though hopefully not another Ledge war):
Since so many fans seem to prefer Stevie's solo outtake of "Running Through The Garden," what we now know is a solo version of "Thrown Down," her piano demo of "Goodbye Baby," and the "angry" version of "Smile At You" (which Ken Caillat has gone on record as saying was NOT recorded by Fleetwood Mac, but rather by Stevie's solo band, and a guitarist recreating Lindsey's style -- much to Lindsey's annoyance), and since so many people dislike the "altered voices" effects in "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out"....

Is Lindsey not quite as in-tune with what's best for Stevie's songs as he used to be?

No, I don't think he is. I've actually half-entertained making this point before, but didn't want to cause a big fight.

I think he did an absolutely *abysmal* job with the song "Say You Will." Those electric guitar parts in the verse are about the most pedestrian I've ever heard from him, and the children's chorus makes me cringe.

On "Illume," those silly voice effects nearly ruin what may be Stevie's best new song of the past 20 years.

"Smile at You" -- I have the same complaints many others have expressed.

"Silver Girl" is flat, and "Destiny Rules" is OK -- I really like the banjo stuff at the end -- but he steals an old guitar riff from "World Turning" for the verse.

I feel the only song he worked his old magic on was "Thrown Down," which has a simple and elegant arrangement that masks Stevie's rather boring chords -- though I see I'm in the minority on that.

In general, I'd say the problem is that he doesn't give her songs -- or his, for the matter -- enough room to breathe. There are too many overdubs, too many effects. Less is more. That's why I love "Rumours" and especially "Tusk" so much -- they weren't overdone. He used to leave something to the imagination!

[rianbay1]

Originally Posted by dissention

I think My Heart is atrocious. The lyrics are pretty good, but it's so AC and overproduced, even more than the rest of TISL. I can't really grasp much of a melody, either. Someone sent it to me awhile back raving about it, but I was left quite cold. One of the things that makes my ears bleed is the melodramatic music during the verses. My word, it sounds like stock music from a Streisand record.

HOWEVER -----

I loooooooooove Bombay Sapphires. It slays the album version.

What a suprise that you would say something like this Dissention

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by blinker12

No, I don't think he is. I've actually half-entertained making this point before, but didn't want to cause a big fight.

I think he did an absolutely *abysmal* job with the song "Say You Will." Those electric guitar parts in the verse are about the most pedestrian I've ever heard from him, and the children's chorus makes me cringe.

On "Illume," those silly voice effects nearly ruin what may be Stevie's best new song of the past 20 years.

"Smile at You" -- I have the same complaints many others have expressed.

"Silver Girl" is flat, and "Destiny Rules" is OK -- I really like the banjo stuff at the end -- but he steals an old guitar riff from "World Turning" for the verse.

I feel the only song he worked his old magic on was "Thrown Down," which has a simple and elegant arrangement that masks Stevie's rather boring chords -- though I see I'm in the minority on that.

In general, I'd say the problem is that he doesn't give her songs -- or his, for the matter -- enough room to breathe. There are too many overdubs, too many effects. Less is more. That's why I love "Rumours" and especially "Tusk" so much -- they weren't overdone. He used to leave something to the imagination!

I have nearly the same criticisms on those songs. However, I wonder if the reason he's not doing a comparable job on her work as before has to do with the power dynamic taking a strong shift toward compromise? I'm sure on Stevie's songs LB's influence is watered down, especially when they disagree. My guess is, in order to keep things from getting combative on everything he does for her, he's doing it the way she wants most of the time. JMHO.

I fault him for ruining Illume, but I think some of the other clunkers should be placed at Stevie's feet. If you think he does what he really wants with her stuff anymore, I'd say you've got another thing coming. Do you really think the SYW kiddie chorus was his idea? I really dislike that intensely. Yet, wasn't it Stevie who pointed out in the DR Doc that music is sold to people ages 10-27? I see some campaigning here for the pre-teen market.

The only song I disagree with you on is Smile at You. Even though everyone likes the old demo better, I love this version. I agree, Thrown Down is closest to the old magic as anything on SYW. On his own songs, I like most of what he did, but the GOS demos were often better. The treatment of Say Goodbye on the recording is the only one that doesn't work for me. After seeing it simplified being done live, it's clear he overdid it in the studio.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Honestly it makes me wonder why Say You Will took so damn long to make. I mean most of Lindsey's song were DONE, all he had to do was add Stevie's voice. Stevie's songs like "Silver Girl," "Thrown Down," and "Say You Will" aren't much different than the "Demos" she brought that we say in the documentary...what took them so long?


Chris