Fleetwood Mac & Mick Fleetwood sales figures

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

"That you cannot afford $15.00 is complete and utter bullshi& and you damn well know it"

That was the insulting bit. He wasn't making a joke at poor people, but he was undermining what how dire it can be.

I have no problem with not buying that album seeing as I went broke going to all the Australian shows. They have enough of my support, I'm not going to feel that I did a disservice to their poor souls for not buying the album (which I actually did eventually).

No - I was saying that Amber apparently has a connection to the net and a comp. And she has talked about little items that she could have done without like cigs. So, I think it is bull**** for her or anyone to say they cannot scrape together $15 when all it would take is $2.00 a week or so. Again, she could have also done without until she could had afforded it. But, that concept is too foreign to people. They think "ah screw them and it - they have so much money they will never miss it and I am owed this because they are rich and I am not" - again, I hope no on e ever treats any onf you or me like that.

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

No - I was saying that Amber apparently has a connection to the net and a comp. And she has talked about little items that she could have done without like cigs. So, I think it is bull**** for her or anyone to say they cannot scrape together $15 when all it would take is $2.00 a week or so. Again, she could have also done without until she could had afforded it. But, that concept is too foreign to people. They think "ah screw them and it - they have so much money they will never miss it and I am owed this because they are rich and I am not" - again, I hope no on e ever treats any onf you or me like that.

you obviously missed the part where i did not take it, or ask for it. someone randomly brought it to me. I really think you don't understand where i am coming from. And i just got my very first computer with my school loan. Months and months after the "cd incident". And i am assuming, then, that you never downloaded all the things available to you for free from the mac.
And i never thought "screw them and it", or that i was owed anything. You live like me, then come and talk to me about it...
so glad you still adore Lux..
Amber

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

you obviously missed the part where i did not take it, or ask for it. someone randomly brought it to me. I really think you don't understand where i am coming from. And i just got my very first computer with my school loan. Months and months after the "cd incident". And i am assuming, then, that you never downloaded all the things available to you for free from the mac.
And i never thought "screw them and it", or that i was owed anything. You live like me, then come and talk to me about it...
so glad you still adore Lux..
Amber

Whatever - let's just drop this.

[amber]

Originally Posted by MacMan

Sorry bout that, should have been more clear... I was responding to Ambers situation, not yours. If she's hungry, or has no cash for food, then she probably shouldn't have a computer especially with an internet connection.

I just got my first computer. The cd was last year. I got the computer with my school loans, because i also need it for school. I'm in school to further my education to get a better job. As in, I have never had a computer until a month ago. And fyi, i did sell things when i was hungry. Except, all i had to sell was books. no car, no bike. nothing else. oh, I sold CD's as well. Now, I usually have enough for my basic, and i mean basic, needs. I still do not have a car or bike. I still rollerblade, walk, and take public transportation to get where i need to go. It's always so funny to me to hear people who have never been poor try to give advice about being poor. You absolutely cannot judge me or give me advice. You clearly have no real idea of what my situation was. Ha, true colors are shown...it's the same prejudice and judgment that it always was. Well, rock on, and try to tell me what i can and cannot do, and what my priorities should be. Seriously, you have no grasp whatsoever...

[Hawkeye]

I think Bush winning has made you guys irretible .

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Whatever - let's just drop this.

ok. until the next time you come at me with "that is bull****" i'm happy to. And i look forward to seeing you fly to my neighborhood to do charity. Most of the people don't live in mud huts, but they certainly don't have adequate education, healthcare, food, or family life. It would be great to see you!

[amber]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I think Bush winning has made you guys irretible.

yup. Actually, someone who voted democrat but calls me out for being poor and accepting a gift which i never asked for makes me irritable. But i have said i will drop it, so i will.
Congrats - in the not being a bad loser vein.... but still

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

No you're exactly right, I don't know what you know or have experienced. I get that from people around here myself, although they usually then go on to accuse me of embodying whatever name-calling insult is fashionable that day. I thought I might get away with it myself but it seems no matter which way it goes, I get caught out. However, I do wonder if these mud hut dwellers had much of an affect if you still think that $15 is a meager amount that anyone can afford. Or was that directed specifically at Amber? I didn't know you were on some personal level with her where you know her income, rates, expenditures etc.

Why do you still adore me? Aren't I a bitch? Not to mention pathetic, or allegedly so. So why haven't you flown halfway across the world to do charity work for me? Not good enough. But I do thankyou for acknowledging my supreme state of awareness and all-knowing senses. It is a gift.


I just have people (or person) with plenty of money, stealing from me despite the fact that I have no money to eat myself. I want to get to be the rich one being stolen from. I'll just wait for my grandad to die, and having said that, hope that no one murders him and traces this post down.

I adore you my dear because you speak your mind and are, perhaps - more didactic than I

[glitter_fades]

I'm always amazed how Mac fans race to attack other fans in defense of a band operating in a greedy industry that doesn't give a crap about the fans. A poor person should never listen to copied music because the music industry says so? Ever read a book from the library? Thank heaven for Benjamin Franklin. If publishing were a modern invention lobbyists would have libraries outlawed. We'd all be forced to purchase every letter of the written word in the name of protecting intellectual property. Proprietary software developers expect every individual on earth to pay for every new idea in technology and music moguls expect the same for every note of modern music ever created or performed for the rest of eternity. Not charging every person for an individual copy of all the literature ever written has not stopped authors, scholars and journalists from contributing to the culture. If downloading were fully acceptable it wouldn't stop artists from creating music. It would only cut into the obscene profit margins in the music business. I'm not going to freak out over lagging sales for the Mac because some poor kid can't afford a commercial copy of a cd. That's my idea of bull****. If they could afford it most fans would give the band their last dime. The industry knows that's the case and capitalize on it in every possible way, so why begrudge fellow fans some nice music to listen to while wondering where their next meal's coming from?

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The record industry loses millions a year because of theft (and that is what this is) and people therefore lose jobs.

If you want to see theft, look into the history of Mo-town (as just an example) and see how "The record Industry" screws over the artist time and time again. (Dixie Chicks had to sue most recently to get a fair hand) Talk about theft. I worked in the industry and all they care about is profits and short term cash. They don't care about allowing artists to develop, or the creative process....etc. It's all bottom line cash. They refused to adapt to new technology and whine and make excuses about the fans. When VCR's came out, some of the film industry whined the same way and said "NO one will buy movies anymore, they will just tape them...wahhwahhwahhh...." But now, more movies and DVD's are sold more than ever. Adapt or die music industry.
They need to give the industry back to the people that actually use to "collect" and "listen" to records and not some number crunchers. How many groups today have any albumns with more than 2 good tracks? The rest is garbage because the "industry" wants profits quick and put insane timelines on artists to finsih records. ITS THE MUSIC INDUSTRY'S OWN FAULT THEY ARE IN THE SHAPE AND POSITION THEY ARE IN! Oh by the way, the cost ($2.12 was the cost for a record albumn and now a cd cost less than 12 CENTS. Thanks for making cd's more economical and passing the savings on). Talk about greed and theft.
Add to this the corporate position of radio stations to only play a set program........it goes on and on.......Short term thinking, clueless, greedy, idiots.

Oh, one more thing. Most of a bands money comes from TOURING, not record sales. The label takes a HUGE chunk from the record sales. (To recoup studio time and anything else they can get away with - more accounting games mostly).

Time to get off my soap box and go get a cookie. Maybe two.

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

I'm always amazed how Mac fans race to attack other fans in defense of a band operating in a greedy industry that doesn't give a crap about the fans.

Can't we all just get along?

[HomerMcvie]

Look at the ticket prices. Your answer IS there. This isn't about art(anymore).

ALTHOUGH, I think Christine's new album would be a Perfect example of doing it for the art of it.

[flyfirefly]

Originally Posted by Lux

Downloading is not stealing by the way. Stealing is the removal of a copy, eliminating the potential of its sale. Downloading is not removing it but making a replica.

Actually, it is. Getting something for free that you would normally pay for is called stealing, there's just no other way around it. By downloading it, you eliminate the potential of the sale. I don't see how that can be more clear.

------

And yeah, essentially it costs less than a dollar to make a CD. Do any of you realize how many people actually make it big in the record industry? Try less than 1% of the industry. It costs thousands and thousands of dollars to build an adequate recording studio, and we're not just talking Pro Tools here. Major labels literally have to have a handful of major stars a year-- HAVE TO. This is why the "scene" changes so frequently.

And of course, the public's perception of the industry is awards shows and MTV's Cribs with seemingly mediocre performers with four houses and 5 million dollar diamond studs in each ear, but that performer is few and far between. There are still millions of other bands (on major labels even) in tiny vans travelling across the country playing clubs.

I imagine FM definitely broke even with this whole thing. They were getting $750,000-a-show, and that's just for performing (at least in 2003). Revenue is revenue, no matter what.

[amber]

Originally Posted by flyfirefly

Actually, it is. Getting something for free that you would normally pay for is called stealing, there's just no other way around it. By downloading it, you eliminate the potential of the sale. I don't see how that can be more clear.

------

And yeah, essentially it costs less than a dollar to make a CD. Do any of you realize how many people actually make it big in the record industry? Try less than 1% of the industry. It costs thousands and thousands of dollars to build an adequate recording studio, and we're not just talking Pro Tools here. Major labels literally have to have a handful of major stars a year-- HAVE TO. This is why the "scene" changes so frequently.

And of course, the public's perception of the industry is awards shows and MTV's Cribs with seemingly mediocre performers with four houses and 5 million dollar diamond studs in each ear, but that performer is few and far between. There are still millions of other bands (on major labels even) in tiny vans travelling across the country playing clubs.

I imagine FM definitely broke even with this whole thing. They were getting $750,000-a-show, and that's just for performing (at least in 2003). Revenue is revenue, no matter what.

if i buy say you will, the download doesn't really cut into their record sales, does it? And, even with what you say, i feel the fact that i bought Timespace 3 times (1 tape, 2 cd's) and The Dance twice, and paid to see them twice in 2004, will help to keep them afloat...

[flyfirefly]

I don't know where you're getting the idea that by making a copy of a song, it's suddenly legal to spread around. If I buy the CD, and burn a copy for you the potential sale to you is eliminated. An addition to the sale? What?

For your reading enjoyment: Highlights from A&M V. Napster

Downloading songs is considering "wholesale reproduction and distribution of copyrighted works" = direct copyright infringement. By ripping a song form a CD you are not transforming the song, you're just putting it in a different medium.

I think a good bulk of people think downloading is okay because hey, Fleetwood Mac is a "supergroup" and they have millions of dollars and spend their days in Hawaii sipping teas. It's not okay. And buying a thousand copies of SYW doesn't justify burning one.