Capital Punishment

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by amber

Dude! a few cells isn't a baby. And he didn't say he cared more about murderers than babys. And maybe, if a few of those murderers mothers had gotten abortions, instead of raised them poorly, there would be less murderers.
Amber

Now you see this is where I'm different then most people. I will read soemthing put so eloquently by Amber and go hmm that makes a lot of sense. And retract what I said earlier (but I'm still generally opposed to abortion) But someone like Dissention is so glued to being ultra liberal all the time, they just won't be flexible.

[tommer]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Now you see this is where I'm different then most people. I will read soemthing put so eloquently by Amber and go hmm that makes a lot of sense. And retract what I said earlier (but I'm still generally opposed to abortion) But someone like Dissention is so glued to being ultra liberal all the time, they just won't be flexible.

dude, why do you use the term Liberal like it's a curse, when in fact it's a great virtue? don't you know that liberalism is the foundation of a modern society?

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by tommer

dude, why do you use the term Liberal like it's a curse, when in fact it's a great virtue? don't you know that liberalism is the foundation of a modern society?

I never said it was bad.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I just knew you'd chime in with some stupid crap like that again. How can you possibly care more about ****ing murderers then a baby. HOW. didn't you go on and on about killing babys in Iraq or something. But you support abortion.

And should I be surprised that you'd chime in with something so illogical?

I never said I "cared" more about murderers than I did about babies. Two, three, or four month old fetuses are not babies to me, whether you like it or not. I support a woman's right to not have a child, I do not support abortion as a means of birth control; those are two wildly different things, but then you probably see it as just a black and white issue, when it isn't.

I see a stark difference between aborting a fetus that would not be supported by its parents, emotionally and monetarily, and could have a terrible life, and killing a living, breathing human being by the electric chair. Women do not have abortions because they want to, they have abortions because they have to; because every woman lives under a different set of circumstances than another. If that means that they cannot support a baby, it's their right to abort it instead of exposing the child to the harsh circumstances that live under.

I also see a big difference between bombing a country that never attacked us, never threatened us, and killing babies over there as a result. I could point out your clear hypocrisy by bringing up your support for Iraq, whether you do or not at this point, which in turn would make you supportive of killing babies. But see, your point wasn't a point at all and has nothing to do with the capital punishment versus abortion debate.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Now you see this is where I'm different then most people. I will read soemthing put so eloquently by Amber and go hmm that makes a lot of sense. And retract what I said earlier (but I'm still generally opposed to abortion) But someone like Dissention is so glued to being ultra liberal all the time, they just won't be flexible.

I'm sorry that I don't hold your views when it comes to gay people, thugs in the White House, the death penalty, and abortion, but I do have to be able to sleep at night.

[Hawkeye]

I also see a big difference between bombing a country that never attacked us, never threatened us, and killing babies over there as a result. I could point out your clear hypocrisy by bringing up your support for Iraq, whether you do or not at this point, which in turn would make you supportive of killing babies. But see, your point wasn't a point at all and has nothing to do with the capital punishment versus abortion debate.

WHAT. My point wasn't a point at all. That makes no sense. And where in heck did you get that I support Iraq. I want us to get the hell out of there. I just brought up Iraq to compare the killing of babies over there to the killing of babies over here. And guess what if you don't think you can raise a baby there's another "A" word out there that's a lot better then abortion and its ADOPTION.

And Dissention you have to answer this question, How can you not want the DC snipers or some other horrible criminal to get their ass electricuted. What is so wrong with that. Could you please explain yourself.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

"A" word out there that's a lot better then abortion and its ADOPTION.

not to interrupt, but it's also hard to carry a baby, get the medical attention, etc. also, there are already millions of babies to adopt here, and from other countries. Countries where people absolutely don't have the resources or beliefs to have abortions or even birth control (hello, Africa, anyone?) and, if you're religous, don't you think those "souls" go to heaven anyway, just to be born again? I guess religious people think you have to be baptized, but, i'm sorry, i don't think that splashing some water on a baby, and a guy saying a few prayers over it, would be God's deciding factor on whether that soul got to go to heaven or not. so.
Amber

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

WHAT. My point wasn't a point at all. That makes no sense. And where in heck did you get that I support Iraq. I want us to get the hell out of there.

But you supported it to begin with, so it makes no difference what you think now. The damage has been done.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I just brought up Iraq to compare the killing of babies over there to the killing of babies over here.

And it was a lousy point. You can't equate the unwarranted bombing of babies and toddlers by the United States to abortion. Maybe you can, but I certainly can't.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

And guess what if you don't think you can raise a baby there's another "A" word out there that's a lot better then abortion and its ADOPTION.

Yeah, because we all know that adoption rates are higher than the rates of those that aren't adopted.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

And Dissention you have to answer this question, How can you not want the DC snipers or some other horrible criminal to get their ass electricuted. What is so wrong with that. Could you please explain yourself.

I already did. It isn't the governments place to premeditate and carry out murders. It contradicts and undermines the criminal justice system. I don't believe in that sort of revenge and don't think it solves anything.

[Hawkeye]

But you supported it to begin with, so it makes no difference what you think now. The damage has been done.

No I never supported it. I never said either way on here. Where are you getting that I supported the war.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

No I never supported it. I never said either way on here. Where are you getting that I supported the war.

Your previous posts.

If you want me to, I'll try to find some of them, but it will have to wait until tomorrow because I'm too Bushwhacked right now. I specifically remember that you and Lux got into a little tussle over your remarks, you said something to the effect that you were glad we were over there getting oil because your gas would be cheaper.

[amber]

Originally Posted by amber

I guess religious people think you have to be baptized, but, i'm sorry, i don't think that splashing some water on a baby, and a guy saying a few prayers over it, would be God's deciding factor on whether that soul got to go to heaven or not. so.
Amber

Hawkeye, what you think of this?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

Hawkeye, what you think of this?

I'm not Hawkeye, but I think it's a load of ****.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm not Hawkeye, but I think it's a load of ****.

Wait, so you think "god" would care that these babies haven't been baptized?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

Wait, so you think "god" would care that these babies haven't been baptized?

NO!

I don't believe in god, so I think it's ridiculous.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

NO!

I don't believe in god, so I think it's ridiculous.

Well, that was the crux of my point, but i didn't want to close it out with "god doesn't exist" cause, really, I don't have all the facts on that.
But if "god" did exist, i don't think he/she/it would give a **** whether or not you prayed and splashed water on a baby. Therefore, "abortion souls", no matter what happens to them, are free and clear. See? and if someone believed in reincarn, well, those souls would come back! See? I mean, i, myself, am more of the native american religious persuasion, though i was baptized Catholic (italian, Irish, comes with the territory). so i believe in respect for all living things, but i also believe that death is part of everything, and there are no real "rules" for it. But the main rule is, injustice is wrong.to everything on the earth. (which, if you're religious, you should believe "god" created, and act accordingly)
but again, i think to bring you're point to others, as much as you're able, you have to try to bring the point into their belief system. This is difficult, if not impossible, in most cases, but...doesn't mean you can't try. After all, that's how social change comes about, by changing peoples minds.

Amber