I'm an "undecided"...convince me. - Page 3

strandinthewind · #31 10-27-2004, 12:48 PM

so, have we convinced you?

DeeGeMe · #32 10-27-2004, 12:51 PM

Here--this is from DailyKos.com and he summarizes this better than I can.

1. Kerry is the only candidate in the race with significant experience in both domestic policy and foreign policy. He won't need much "on-the-job training" in any field; he'll be able to hit the ground running, as it were.

2. Kerry has the best environmental record of all the candidates. He has a 96% lifetime rating from the League of Conservation Voters and earned the earliest endorsement they've ever given in a Presidential race. Some specific highlights of his environmental record include leading the fight against Republican attempts to weaken the Clean Air Act, being one of the first to threaten and then organize a filibuster against recent Republican attempts to allow drilling in ANWR, and authoring important 1994 amendments to the 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act and a 1990 law to protect marine mammals from driftnet fishing. (People who think he's exaggerated his role on these issues should ask themselves why the LCV would have endorsed him so enthusiastically and so early if that were the case.) There's a lot more, though; those who are interested can look at LCV's summary webpage on him or the more lengthy PDF profile it links to.

3. Kerry has a solidly liberal overall voting record that's earned him a 93% lifetime rating from Americans for Democratic Action. For those who want a specific example of an important vote for an unpopular liberal cause, note that he voted against the Defense of Marriage Act-- which even Paul Wellstone voted for. He also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, contrary to the claims some have made here.

4. Kerry's record has an element of economic moderate-ness very consistent with the successful Clintonian recipe for economic growth. He voted for not only Clinton's 1993 deficit-cutting budget but also the 1980s Gramm-Rudman-Hollings deficit-control law, and he favors free trade, albeit with labor and environmental protections built into any new trade agreements we sign.

5. Kerry's tax plan gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, but not those for the middle class. The middle of the Bush recession is not the most economically appropriate time to raise taxes significantly on most consumers; repealing the tax cuts for the wealthy is sufficient to get rid of most of the distributional unfairness from the Bush tax cuts and get back a decent portion of the lost revenue.

6. Kerry has more of a record of accomplishment in the Senate than a lot of people think. He spearheaded important investigations into the Iran-Contra affair and the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, taking on Republican administrations in the process. He's authored successful environment-related bills, cosponsored others, and played leading roles in the fights against rolling back many existing environmental laws, as mentioned in #4. In any case, I can't think offhand of many legislators with more than a couple of specific accomplishments in their names; most of being a legislator is working on and voting on bills that other people have officially authored. And in that respect, Kerry has done a lot of good over the years, as evidenced by his ADA and LCV ratings.

7. Kerry's Vietnam war experience means that he knows what war is really like, unlike the various Republican "chickenhawks". And Kerry's heroism as an officer during the war shows that as an executive leader in a crisis, he can make quick and courageous decisions.

8. Kerry's health-care proposal combines coverage for more Americans with a plan to control rising healthcare costs. I've been unable to track down the relevant link so far, but my recollection is that for this reason it got the highest rating of all the candidates' plans from some nonpartisan group that looked at the plans last fall.

Violet · #33 10-27-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

so, have we convinced you?

Gees! It hasn't even been 24 hours since my first post! As gldstwmn so eloquently said, I need to be more informed! So I will be going to John Kerry's website today. As well as talking to relatives who plan to vote for Kerry. Believe it or not, The Ledge isn't the only resource I have!

Carol

gldstwmn · #34 10-27-2004, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estranged4life

but I feel that a 2 party system has made some of us divided & without hope...While both may have good ideas and thoughts when it comes down to the brass tacks, Their ideas will only cover those who line up behind those beliefs of each individual party.

The 2 party system reminds me of shopping for music, (I will use this as my comparison) When I shop for music I usually tend to buy what is good to my ears, Not what is currently the "flavor of the week" or trendy for the moment...I decide what I like, Not some 'suit behind a desk hoping for the next big cookie cutting pile of dog**** trend'.

It seems politics as of late has become too devisive, Like music, Whereas ya have "Conservatives", "Liberals", "Independents", "Anarchists", etc and with music ya have genres-"Pop", "Country", "Rap", "Rock", etc. When ya shop for music it is because you like what you hear, Not because you are being led to like what the corporates want you to like to benefit their labels (Or as in this country what the political system wants you to like to benefit their parties.)

If you tend to listen to a certain genre of music, Be it "Pop", "County", "Rap", etc. Sure 'nuff yer goin' to find someone who will jump on yer tastes because it conflicts with their personal tastes...They will constantly bombard yer ass until ya line up behind that lemmin gravy train and give in. Sorry, I cannot do that...Seems the same thing with politics, Yer bombarded "Over & Over" until yer the next lemmin in line goin' over that "big ol' cliff", I cannot do that either.

"I have this moronic thing I do, It's called thinking. I like to think and formulate opinions and thoughts for myself"-George Carlin
Brian j.

Interesting point. However, this year, I feel, it is not just about what appeals to your particular ear. We truly, this time, are all in this together and must approach it as such. The greater good of our country is at stake here.

strandinthewind · #35 10-27-2004, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Interesting point. However, this year, I feel, it is not just about what appeals to your particular ear. We truly, this time, are all in this together and must approach it as such. The greater good of our country is at stake here.

I agree - the effect of four more years of "guns a blarin shoot now and ask questions later - Christian America is the only important thing in the world - bring on the rapture we are ready for it" Bush is so devastating I would vote for a hole in a tree if I thought it could defeat W. Fortunately, Kerry is better than a hole in a tree

gldstwmn · #36 10-27-2004, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violet

Wow...First of all, I haven't read further than your post, yet. And I'm not going to respond to everything you said.

That's okay. My main intent was to provoke thought.

estranged4life · #37 10-27-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree - the effect of four more years of "guns a blarin shoot now and ask questions later - Christian America is the only important thing in the world - bring on the rapture we are ready for it" Bush is so devastating I would vote for a hole in a tree if I thought it could defeat W. Fortunately, Kerry is better than a hole in a tree

don't give 'em any ideas...Bad enough I have to live in the heart of the Bible belt and have to see these "F**ktards" on a daily basis & their "master plan for God, the Bible & Halliburton" world domination schemes

As for me, I still like the ol' saying "Anybody but Bush"...And yes, That means ANY independent is better than "Moses' burnin' Shrub"!!!! (Kinda funny cause my Mother's family name is Moses...Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!)

Brian "W. was on Mt.Cyanide and God spoke through a burning SHRUB" j.

amber · #38 10-27-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Interesting point. However, this year, I feel, it is not just about what appeals to your particular ear. We truly, this time, are all in this together and must approach it as such. The greater good of our country is at stake here.

We are, but that's the way people are always discouraged from voting outside one of the big two. And I think until everyone starts voting for who they really want - that races will still always be dominated by the big ONE party, big money, which is what both parties really cater to. The parties are highly flawed, and there won't be actual change unless people start voting for actual change. Which means voting outside the parties.
I will be voting for Kerry, but isn't the greater good always at stake? But we keep only having the choice of voting for one of two greater bads. And we always have to vote for big money.
AMber

JohnL · #39 10-27-2004, 02:41 PM

that a vote for any other party other than Democrat or Republican is giving the edge to the Republicans. The race is so close that if you are absolutely sure you want rid of W, you need to vote for Kerry. If Bush is elected for another 4 years, it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of us aren't here to discuss the next election. He will war his way in way over his head and the US will pay.

estranged4life · #40 10-27-2004, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnL

that a vote for any other party other than Democrat or Republican is giving the edge to the Republicans. The race is so close that if you are absolutely sure you want rid of W, you need to vote for Kerry. If Bush is elected for another 4 years, it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of us aren't here to discuss the next election. He will war his way in way over his head and the US will pay.

on what state you reside in, Such as larger populated states like Ca-li-for-niE & Flori-DUH (Home of the "voting Bermuda Rectangle"), that would be true, But here in Oklahoma a vote for anyone other than Shrub will not matter in helping Kerry to win this state since polls have already predicted a Shrub win by 35% over Kerry next Tuesday.

Last Demo to win Oklahoma was the original JFK in 1960.

Brian j.

Josh2003 · #41 10-27-2004, 02:50 PM

I think one important thing to keep in mind when an incumbent is up for reelection is that we live in a representative democracy. The basic ideal of this system of government, and what our founding fathers had in mind when writing the Constitution (read some of the Federalist papers...amazing stuff in those things), is that elected officials should be ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE.

If you are displeased with an elected official's performance in office, you let them know when they are up for reelection, and vote for their opponent.

gldstwmn · #42 10-27-2004, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

We are, but that's the way people are always discouraged from voting outside one of the big two. And I think until everyone starts voting for who they really want - that races will still always be dominated by the big ONE party, big money, which is what both parties really cater to. The parties are highly flawed, and there won't be actual change unless people start voting for actual change. Which means voting outside the parties.
I will be voting for Kerry, but isn't the greater good always at stake? But we keep only having the choice of voting for one of two greater bads. And we always have to vote for big money.
AMber

Please read post #30.

gldstwmn · #43 10-27-2004, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnL

that a vote for any other party other than Democrat or Republican is giving the edge to the Republicans. The race is so close that if you are absolutely sure you want rid of W, you need to vote for Kerry. If Bush is elected for another 4 years, it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of us aren't here to discuss the next election. He will war his way in way over his head and the US will pay.

Amen brother. Amen.