I'm an "undecided"...convince me.

[estranged4life]

undecided, Just something makes me NOT want to vote for Herman-Munster even though I do like Edwards (Shrub/Dick is outta the question)...So I will more-than-likely vote for the Green party candidates.

I am more interested in the state laws that are on the ballot for Oklahoma...Most should pass (Including the lameass state lottery question) except the law to add an amendment to legalize gay marriage (Currently about 77% of Oklahomans are against this law...Well the 2 straight married adults in this household are voting for it to pass, So we are in the very small minority!)

Btw, Brad Carson is now behind in the polls here for the US Senate with Tom Coburn pulling ahead...Not good news for those Demos who are wanting control of the US Senate.

Brian j.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Violet

I read somewhere (please don't ask me to quote where because I'm not gonna take the time to look it up) that Clinton had the chance to get bin laden and he didn't. Carol

That's a lie.

Frankly, I have to tell you that it's quite irritating to me that you are too lazy to do a simple search of this board, read the paper, watch television, etc. and make an informed decision for yourself and then come here and ask people to convince you to vote for Kerry one week before the most important election in our lifetimes.
It is precisely this mindset in our country that has landed us where we are today-less safe, in debt, all of our good jobs being sent off overseas, civil rights being eroded, social programs for the poor and working poor being slashed.
With respect to your $400 tax break-enjoy it because you are paying dearly for it in many ways. Have you noticed the price of food and gas recently? Are you comfortable that our borders are unprotected and all of the cargo coming into this country is unscreened because there is no money to pay for it? Does that make you feel safer?
What is it that you like so much about Bush? Is it the fact that he's pro life, yet executed 160 people while governor of Texas? Was it his performance in the debates? How about lying to get us into an illegal war? We got Saddam, yeah. The f*cker wasn't going anywhere. We had him cornered. You know what would really impress me? Finding Osama Bin Laden-but your "friend" George isn't interested in finding him, says he doesn't care where he is. Pro military, support the troops do you? Geroge Bush was AWOL, Dick Cheney had FIVE deferrments and John Ashcroft had SEVEN. They had other priorities, I guess.
Did you mention you just took some kind of exam? Studying medicine? Nursing? Guess what? If your "friend" George gets elected, YOU WIN A FREE TRIP TO IRAQ! That's right. People with medical skills will be drafted for the huge casualties we are going to suffer in the ensuing massive battles post election so George and Haliburton can win the war! Woohoo! Hell, you might even get to see Iran or Syria for free too!
Now before this thread gets up to 100 posts, I must admit, Carol, Violet, whatever your name is, your writing style seems hauntingly familiar to me. So please, if in your heart, you are serioulsy having doubts about incurious George, do your homework. This is serious.

[amber]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

undecided, Just something makes me NOT want to vote for Herman-Munster even though I do like Edwards (Shrub/Dick is outta the question)...So I will more-than-likely vote for the Green party candidates.

I am more interested in the state laws that are on the ballot for Oklahoma...Most should pass (Including the lameass state lottery question) except the law to add an amendment to legalize gay marriage (Currently about 77% of Oklahomans are against this law...Well the 2 straight married adults in this household are voting for it to pass, So we are in the very small minority!)

Btw, Brad Carson is now behind in the polls here for the US Senate with Tom Coburn pulling ahead...Not good news for those Demos who are wanting control of the US Senate.

Brian j.

Yay, Green! that's how i'm choosing all my propositions to vote for and stuff...

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Btw, Brad Carson is now behind in the polls here for the US Senate with Tom Coburn pulling ahead...Not good news for those Demos who are wanting control of the US Senate.

Brian j.

Oh Jesus. He did it to himself by saying he wasn't running on the Dem ticket and all that other whacked out behavior of the last few weeks. Hopefully, Jim Bunning will lose his seat in Kentucky since he's too senile to debate or speak in public.
I do not wish "Dr. Death" Coburn on anyone.
Please do not waste your vote in this election on a third party candidate. It translates into absolutely nothing. JMHO.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Oh Jesus. He did it to himself by saying he wasn't running on the Dem ticket and all that other whacked out behavior of the last few weeks. Hopefully, Jim Bunning will lose his seat in Kentucky since he's too senile to debate or speak in public.
I do not wish "Dr. Death" Coburn on anyone.
Please do not waste your vote in this election on a third party candidate. It translates into absolutely nothing. JMHO.

what hurt him is the new Pro-Repub ads, One which show an animated Brad Carson dancing in Washington DC with 2 people Oklahomans cannot stand:

Hill-billy Clinton & Ted "Where's the bar/Where's my drink" Kennedy

I find the commercial funny as hell cause Hill-billy looks so damn realistic...Especially her salute!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Kinda funny but I emailed Brad Carson's campaign to ask about the rumor you heard about of Carson switching parties, His campaign chairperson emailed me back saying that rumor started with Tom Coburn's chairperson as a smear tactic...And the tactic has been "erroneously" been picked up by the Democratic National Party as being a fact.

As for a vote for the independent/third party being a waste that translate into nothing, Sorry I do not see it that way...I talked to a person last night as I was pumping gas into my car and this 30-something African American male said the same thing I believe, "The candidates for President leave alot to be desired...Doesnt matter who wins, Nothing will change."

I cannot bring myself to vote for a candidate that I do not like, That being both Bush & Kerry, and I will not waste my vote that way...but it is my right and my vote to CHOOSE who I vote for, Even if it as you say "It translates into absolutely nothing" (Please do not take my post as a personal attack because it is not, I just disagree with you is all )

Brian j.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by Lux

I agree with the sentiment, and if I was in America where the two party system is in an even more dire situation than here, I might do the same. We have a couple Greens Party members holding seats and I always vote Greens for the Senate, but I'm lean towards sticking by the two party system in the House of Reps, only because it's a little more optimistic here. I might be the only Australian that's still excited about the fact that Peter Garrett (formerly of Midnight Oil) has taken a seat for Labor, our version of the Democrats.

is no longer a member of Midnight Oil? I didnt know that...I liked his political activism, Only one of the few musicians who activism I care to read about (With John Lennon, Bob Geldof & Bono being the others).

Brian j.

ps-Offtopic-Hey Lux, Are ya going to purchase the "Page & Plant Unledded" DVD? It was released yesterday and plan to purchase it...

[strandinthewind]

Lord this thread has gone from Zeppelin to abortion -

In sum and to paraphrase a wonderfully pithy friend of mine "I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it would help defeat W"

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by Violet

The thing that concerns me most is being safe. That's my biggest thing. I'm thrilled we took out sadam. I read somewhere (please don't ask me to quote where because I'm not gonna take the time to look it up) that Clinton had the chance to get bin laden and he didn't. That scares the bejeebies outta me.

And the Bush camp. knows that that is one of the top things on the minds of Americans - they are therefore using fear as a campaign tactic....and that sucks - because it's a powerful tool - playing on people's fears....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

And the Bush camp. knows that that is one of the top things on the minds of Americans - they are therefore using fear as a campaign tactic....and that sucks - because it's a powerful tool - playing on people's fears....

and - it just boggles my mind that people are so willing to give W a free pass on failing to prevent 9/11. The evidence was there - they just failed to put it all together. While I readily admit, it would have taken a lot of breaks and luck to do so, the Bush Adminsitration by all accounts of the people who were there, were not really concentrating on Al-Q and instead were looking at ways to invade Iraq. So, some fault must be assigned to them. AND - what do they say about that - they certainly did not apologize or even seem contrite. THEN - they did not learn from their mistake in that instead of continuing to pursue Al-Q (the people that attacked us here and elsewhere) - they refocused on Iraq and went into a wqar that perhaps could have been prevented and most certainly was based on a false premise (immediate threat to the U.S. if SH was not removed) - yet, once again, they were wrong and did they apologize - no. Instead, they justify the death of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's (again we are there because the common Iraqi is our friend and we are trying to help them) and over 1,000 U.S. soldiers with countless others on all sides severly injured - by saying America was justified because SH was a "bad guy" - That excuse fails with me and I am appalled anyone would accept it, esp. considering W said he would not go to war on ANY resaon other than the case where Amercia was in immediate danger from a direct threat

Then, the whole post-Iraq scenario has been a total scew up from day one, which again, could have been somewhat avoided if we had taken our time and actually prepared to go into Iraq. Alas, W did not and now we are paying the price for it.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lux

I gather it can't really work that way in the US because the candidate is chosen and then they pick their cabinet.....right? I'm not entirely familiar.

.

That is correct.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

"The candidates for President leave alot to be desired...Doesnt matter who wins, Nothing will change."
Brian j.

Make no mistake, I am not against the Greens or any other third party. but there are a few things to consider. Democracy begins from the ground up. The best way to change the system is to start at the bottom, build a strong base and then get your cnadidates elected to a national office. It's pretty offensive to me that some of our tax dollars will be spent of federal matching funds to help these people mount their campaigns when they have no chance in winning and some of them are present as spoilers in the race.
By thinking that there is nothing you or I or anyone can do-"Doesnt matter who wins, Nothing will change."-that is the ultimate capitulation. That is right where they want us, cynical, divided and without hope.

[Livia]

I don't usually get involved in these threads, but here goes:

Violet, have you seen Fahrenheit 9-11? Yes, it may be a slanted viewpoint of Michael Moore's, but it's a lot more factual than the Bush administration has been with America. I don't like being lied to. Period. I've always been a Democrat, however, even I was a lifelong Republican? After seeing F 9-11, I would want Bush and his entire administration out of the white house asap.

You shouldn't base your vote on "I like his personality and that other guy looks like Herman Munster," or whatever...I'm sure George Bush would be a lot of fun to go fishing with and hang out and drink with, etc. (which is what he does best) But he and his entire administration must go!!

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Make no mistake, I am not against the Greens or any other third party. but there are a few things to consider. Democracy begins from the ground up. The best way to change the system is to start at the bottom, build a strong base and then get your cnadidates elected to a national office. It's pretty offensive to me that some of our tax dollars will be spent of federal matching funds to help these people mount their campaigns when they have no chance in winning and some of them are present as spoilers in the race.

By thinking that there is nothing you or I or anyone can do-"Doesnt matter who wins, Nothing will change."-that is the ultimate capitulation. That is right where they want us, cynical, divided and without hope.

but I feel that a 2 party system has made some of us divided & without hope...While both may have good ideas and thoughts when it comes down to the brass tacks, Their ideas will only cover those who line up behind those beliefs of each individual party.

The 2 party system reminds me of shopping for music, (I will use this as my comparison) When I shop for music I usually tend to buy what is good to my ears, Not what is currently the "flavor of the week" or trendy for the moment...I decide what I like, Not some 'suit behind a desk hoping for the next big cookie cutting pile of dog**** trend'.

It seems politics as of late has become too devisive, Like music, Whereas ya have "Conservatives", "Liberals", "Independents", "Anarchists", etc and with music ya have genres-"Pop", "Country", "Rap", "Rock", etc. When ya shop for music it is because you like what you hear, Not because you are being led to like what the corporates want you to like to benefit their labels (Or as in this country what the political system wants you to like to benefit their parties.)

If you tend to listen to a certain genre of music, Be it "Pop", "County", "Rap", etc. Sure 'nuff yer goin' to find someone who will jump on yer tastes because it conflicts with their personal tastes...They will constantly bombard yer ass until ya line up behind that lemmin gravy train and give in. Sorry, I cannot do that...Seems the same thing with politics, Yer bombarded "Over & Over" until yer the next lemmin in line goin' over that "big ol' cliff", I cannot do that either.

"I have this moronic thing I do, It's called thinking. I like to think and formulate opinions and thoughts for myself"-George Carlin

Brian j.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't usually get involved in these threads, but here goes:

Violet, have you seen Fahrenheit 9-11? Yes, it may be a slanted viewpoint of Michael Moore's, but it's a lot more factual than the Bush administration has been with America. I don't like being lied to. Period. I've always been a Democrat, however, even I was a lifelong Republican? After seeing F 9-11, I would want Bush and his entire administration out of the white house asap.

You shouldn't base your vote on "I like his personality and that other guy looks like Herman Munster," or whatever...I'm sure George Bush would be a lot of fun to go fishing with and hang out and drink with, etc. (which is what he does best) But he and his entire administration must go!!

And Fahrenheit 9-11 isn't exactly flattering towards the Democrats either-no matter what you might have heard from Repugs attacking Michael Moore. When I saw it for the first time, I left the theater so angry that I wanted to vote for Nader. Diss famously asked me had I been smoking crack after I posted my review of the documentary here and expressed that feeling here on the Ledge. He however successfully talked me down from my redheaded fit and made me return to sanity and firmly commit to the Democrats once again. I'd suggest everyone see it, no matter what their political orientation. It makes you think and isn't that what documentaries are supposed to do?

[Violet]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

That's a lie.

Frankly, I have to tell you that it's quite irritating to me that you are too lazy to do a simple search of this board, read the paper, watch television, etc. and make an informed decision for yourself and then come here and ask people to convince you to vote for Kerry one week before the most important election in our lifetimes.
It is precisely this mindset in our country that has landed us where we are today-less safe, in debt, all of our good jobs being sent off overseas, civil rights being eroded, social programs for the poor and working poor being slashed.
With respect to your $400 tax break-enjoy it because you are paying dearly for it in many ways. Have you noticed the price of food and gas recently? Are you comfortable that our borders are unprotected and all of the cargo coming into this country is unscreened because there is no money to pay for it? Does that make you feel safer?
What is it that you like so much about Bush? Is it the fact that he's pro life, yet executed 160 people while governor of Texas? Was it his performance in the debates? How about lying to get us into an illegal war? We got Saddam, yeah. The f*cker wasn't going anywhere. We had him cornered. You know what would really impress me? Finding Osama Bin Laden-but your "friend" George isn't interested in finding him, says he doesn't care where he is. Pro military, support the troops do you? Geroge Bush was AWOL, Dick Cheney had FIVE deferrments and John Ashcroft had SEVEN. They had other priorities, I guess.
Did you mention you just took some kind of exam? Studying medicine? Nursing? Guess what? If your "friend" George gets elected, YOU WIN A FREE TRIP TO IRAQ! That's right. People with medical skills will be drafted for the huge casualties we are going to suffer in the ensuing massive battles post election so George and Haliburton can win the war! Woohoo! Hell, you might even get to see Iran or Syria for free too!
Now before this thread gets up to 100 posts, I must admit, Carol, Violet, whatever your name is, your writing style seems hauntingly familiar to me. So please, if in your heart, you are serioulsy having doubts about incurious George, do your homework. This is serious.

Wow...First of all, I haven't read further than your post, yet. And I'm not going to respond to everything you said.
I will answer a few questions you had. No, I didn't take exam. Depo is short for deposition. I'm a court reporter and took a deposition of a neonatologist.

Second (going out of order of your post, sorry) I have NO idea why my writing style seems hauntingly familiar. If I remind you of someone somewhere you didn't like, sorry, but it's not me.

I am trying to do my homework; hence my post. Is it a little late in the game? Yes. Sorry about that, too. Like I said in my first post, I am just starting to question whether I'll vote for Bush or not. So I am trying to find out more about Kerry. I have already read all the negative things people on this board feel about bush, and that's why I asked for positives on Kerry. I don't watch a lot of news because my husband is in the business, and I'm too jaded to believe most of what is aired.

As for the price of food and gas, duh. of course i've noticed gas has gone up. But as for food, I can't really say I've noticed because I moved from FL to NJ and EVERYTHING is more expensive here.

Oh, and thanks for calling me lazy for not looking up prior posts. I was looking for specific info on Kerry, not bush bashing. Guess I should have known I'd get it anyway.

Going to read the other two pages of posts. I couldn't get on the Ledge last night. So I have to catch up.

Carol (my real name. Violet is my cat's name)