CarneVaca is banned permanently

[shackin'up]

Marty asked me to hold my breath for a little while.
I will.

But I am VERY VERY dissapointed.

[tynan88]

Well then I really think it is important for us to despite our differences support the owner and moderators who despite personal beliefs I am sure have taken a just action because I resepect them enough to believe they wouldn't do something unjust.

Tynan

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by tynan88

Well then I really think it is important for us to despite our differences support the owner and moderators who despite personal beliefs I am sure have taken a just action because I resepect them enough to believe they wouldn't do something unjust.

Tynan

True! But something CAN be "not unjust" and still be totally unreasonable given the situation.

[Mari]

and the thread was moved because..?
wouldn't be the first off topic thread on another ledge, so what's the big deal. Smells like a cover-up to me. Ah yes, let's put it on the bottom board that no one reads.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

The guy has pushed it too far...

Who HASN'T at times?

[ThePenguin]

This thread was not moved as part of a "cover-up." It was deemed that since CarneVaca is not a member of the Rumours lineup of Fleetwood Mac, and since the thread pertains instead to a situation that has arisen on the Ledge boards, it would be moved to the appropriate place.

This has been done on many occasions in the past, and is nothing unusual.

Historically, it has not been the policy of the Ledge moderators to publicly discuss the reasons behind strikes and bans (so as to avoid embarrassing a poster if they don't want that information revealed), but due to the unusual number of requests we feel it is necessary to clear up any misinterpretations surrounding CarneVaca's ban. So this statement is being made as a courtesy.

Despite doubts to the contrary, our decision to ban CarneVaca had absolutely nothing to do with his criticism of the way the Ledge is run, or any criticisms directed at the moderators.

It was found that CarneVaca was using two additional usernames, Dulcimer and NoThatFunny, to deceptively engage in the harassment and debasement of other users (not to mention casting multiple votes in the Survivor games), going back and forth between his usernames to post taunts and insults, so as to perpetuate the arguments even after he had claimed to have bowed out as CarneVaca.

Such actions were deemed as willful, calculated, serious breaches of the FAQ, and certainly against the overall friendly environment we hope to maintain on The Ledges.

Based on our FAQs, harassment, taunting, and excessive insults are clearly against the rules.

There is not an explicit rule in the guidelines forbidding the possession of multiple usernames, as it has always been believed that rationality would dictate that the use of multiple usernames to deliberately and clandestinely engage in strike-worthy behavior would not be tolerated. In the real world, the adoption of an alias does not exonerate someone of any wrong-doing they may have engaged in under another name, and the same holds true here.

CarneVaca has not been banned for having multiple usernames, but for the way in which he used them. However, in the future such similar actions will automatically earn three strikes and a ban. Additionally, all strikes will now be accompanied by a minimum 48-hour temporary ban.

We were not at all happy about having to ban CarneVaca, and in fact a great deal of consideration and discussion went into our decision. It pained us, but we also couldn’t stand by and allow the rules against harassment/taunting/insulting behavior in the FAQ to be continually and willfully violated.

We also knew others would not be happy about our decision, and we took this into consideration at all times, but CarneVaca’s behavior ultimately created a hostile environment and is strike-worthy. Taking into account that he already possessed two strikes (which he’s publicly stated in the past), he was therefore awarded his third strike and banned.

The ban has been issued and is final, it is not up for debate. People are free to comment on the decision, but should watch that their responses are measured and do not violate the FAQ. Polls to bring back CarneVaca will be promptly closed.

Although some may disagree with the decision even after knowing what happened, the moderators still feel that the decision is in the best interest of all Ledgies, and had to be made in order to uphold the FAQ.

- The Ledge Moderators

[amber]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

True! But something CAN be "not unjust" and still be totally unreasonable given the situation.

Yeah, but I assume they have to stick to their rules, even sometimes when they may not want to. Cause otherwise, why have strikes and rules and such?
AMber

[amber]

That reminds me - I notice that i can't change my user name. Do I have to use Amber forever? I'm not trying to trick anyone, I just like to try out different names, like we can change our signatures. Is this, like it seems to be, impossible? Will I be forever Amber?
AMber

[Barbara]

Originally Posted by amber

Will I be forever Amber?
AMber

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

Will I be forever Amber?

You could always be AMber.

[dissention]

I really can't believe that Carne has been banned for good. I know that he won't be allowed back and that this decision is final, but it still strikes me as petty.

I talked to Carne earlier this weekend and, I must ask, why did it take so long to catch on that he was using multiple usernames? I thought it was obvious that one of them was Dulcimer, which has been a username on this board for two years! Honestly, I see no difference in the things he posted to goad and antagonize others than what other users post to antagonize others. We're almost all guilty of it, Carne was just more eloquent about it.

The two threads that I believe he got in hot water over, "What the hell...?" and the "Tusk Survivor," confound me. It was clearly stated in the "What the hell" thread that he would not be banned for criticism over how the board is run. So, why has he been banned for using multiple usernames to criticize the moderators?

I know the case is closed, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

I really can't believe that Carne has been banned for good. I know that he won't be allowed back and that this decision is final, but it still strikes me as petty.

I talked to Carne earlier this weekend and, I must ask, why did it take so long to catch on that he was using multiple usernames? I thought it was obvious that one of them was Dulcimer, which has been a username on this board for two years! Honestly, I see no difference in the things he posted to goad and antagonize others than what other users post to antagonize others. We're almost all guilty of it, Carne was just more eloquent about it.

The two threads that I believe he got in hot water over, "What the hell...?" and the "Tusk Survivor," confound me. It was clearly stated in the "What the hell" thread that he would not be banned for criticism over how the board is run. So, why has he been banned for using multiple usernames to criticize the moderators?

I know the case is closed, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

But penguins post says explicitly he was not banned for multiple user names, but for what he said under those user names. Not that i agree, or Dissagree but that's just what the post said...
I can't even change my username to AMber...But actually I wanted to do "Catinthedark" and was suprised no one had that yet....
AMber

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

But penguins post says explicitly he was not banned for multiple user names, but for what he said under those user names. Not that i agree, or Dissagree but that's just what the post said...
I can't even change my username to AMber...But actually I wanted to do "Catinthedark" and was suprised no one had that yet....
AMber

Yes, but I simply don't see his comments under those usernames as being ban-worthy.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yes, but I simply don't see his comments under those usernames as being ban-worthy.

oh, yeah, I can't, and wasn't, speaking as to that...I might've found them so, had I been a mod., with rules, and two previous strikes...but i'm not a mod, and can say that i will miss Carne - he usually didn't piss me off, cause he was always like that so i expected it...also cause i like drama. And also, I'm just not, by nature, a "banner", I would've just told him he was an arse, but apparently the mods did, at least 2 times (the strikes) and probably more. Maybe they were thinking, "How many times do we have to tell you, etc." or something. I dunno. I kinda wish i could email him, though, or something...I'm kinda feeling sad...
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

The two threads that I believe he got in hot water over, "What the hell...?" and the "Tusk Survivor," confound me. It was clearly stated in the "What the hell" thread that he would not be banned for criticism over how the board is run. So, why has he been banned for using multiple usernames to criticize the moderators?

I don't think it would make sense to keep explaining things, but I'd just like to make clear that he wasn't banned for using multiple usernames to post criticisms about the Ledge.
In fact, he posted those criticisms exclusively under the CarneVaca name, and those criticisms were never even an issue to begin with. Marty and I are both big boys, and could handle it.

It's just like we said... he was banned for his actions regarding the treatment of others, which violated our guidelines.

The respectful tone of your post, dissention, is appreciated.