stevie's politics?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Brainwashing its audience? No one who attended a screening of F9/11 could possibly go in under the assumption that it wasn't a partisan film, Michael Moore has said he has an agenda and this film was a big part of it. That being said, there was nothing untrue in the movie and 90% of it was comprised of actual footage from the cronies currently in the White House. Nothing has been disproved and there was no stretching fo the truth. Did you see it?

AND - everything in it is true - MM offered a $$$ reward for anyone who could disprove his assertions and to my knowledge no one has gotten the $$$$$.

My only beef with the movie is that it is full of innuendo and it is one sided. For example, showing W making the golf shot after making a sound byte looks bad, but is done all of the time in that once the camera is off you no longer have to act for it, etc. But, in the end, MM never set out to make a fair and balanced movie. He set out to skewer W on the facts and he succeeded - more power to him

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

AND - everything in it is true - MM offered a $$$ reward for anyone who could disprove his assertions and to my knowledge no one has gotten the $$$$$.

My only beef with the movie is that it is full of innuendo and it is one sided. For example, showing W making the golf shot after making a sound byte looks bad, but is done all of the time in that once the camera is off you no longer have to act for it, etc. But, in the end, MM never set out to make a fair and balanced movie. He set out to skewer W on the facts and he succeeded - more power to him

I think that the "Now watch this drive" part just showed a great degree of insensitivity to the whole situation. In one breath, he's making a plea to "stop these terra-ist killers" and, in the next, he's urging the media to watch him golf. It came off as very disingenuous on his part. JMO.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I think that the "Now watch this drive" part just showed a great degree of insensitivity to the whole situation. In one breath, he's making a plea to "stop these terra-ist killers" and, in the next, he's urging the media to watch him golf. It came off as very disingenuous on his part. JMO.

Well, it did and that was MM's intent. But, to be fair, that could have been the 50th take Also, anyone who has ever done any staged soundbytes, which this apparently was, knows that the emotion is for the camera, etc. But even if it was not, in any scenario, once the camera was off and the take completed, there was no need for the emotion. So, I think that is important to know. Otherwise it looks like W just said something one time for the camera and then forgot about it and concentrated on his golf game and it was all a great big joke to him. Yet, MM cleverly does not fill people in on this industry known fact. Instead he makes it look like W is sincere one minute and swinging his golf club the next, which is unfair in the context of his point.

Again, I think if we looked at the activites done after every soundbyte ever made by a politician, W's activities here would not seem strange

[diamondsnake]

Well, like I said, if you have seen the movie you are not misinformed but have only seen one side. It is stretching the truth, I beleive. Not making things up but stretching the truth a bit.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by diamondsnake

Well, like I said, if you have seen the movie you are not misinformed but have only seen one side. It is stretching the truth, I beleive. Not making things up but stretching the truth a bit.

In what way? I'm not trying to be an ass, I just would like you to explain how presenting facts is stretching the truth. It honestly can't be stretching it any further than Dumbya did when it came to Iraq.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But even if it was not, in any scenario, once the camera was off and the take completed, there was no need for the emotion.

And that's my point: he said something incredibly serious, urged other nations fight the terra-ists, then laughed it off and played golf. Gee, maybe you should stop putting around the golf course and do what you just told everyone else to do? Instead, he showed a great deal of hypocrisy and insensitivity. Food for thought.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by dissention

Michael Moore has said he has an agenda

and that is to make enough $$$ to buy 5,000,000,000,000 Krispy Kreme® glazed donuts so he can gain enough weight to try out for the role of "Fat Bastard®" in the next "Austin Powers®" movie

Hey MM, I have a movie idea for ya, It's called "2-below"...That is that you have 2 feet below that case of "dumlap" (Aka-"His gut it done lapped over his waistline")...Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Brian "Michael Moore-In comparison making rednecks and the 'Im-moral majority" not look as stupid as they do..." j.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

In what way? I'm not trying to be an ass, I just would like you to explain how presenting facts is stretching the truth. It honestly can't be stretching it any further than Dumbya did when it came to Iraq.

Well, as I just explained, he does not explain the facts he presents - it is like he is using quotes out of context. Instead, he shows things that require explaining - like the sound byte example earlier. So, that is not exactly presenting a clear picture even though what transpired is factual Rather, it is a conscious attempt to paint W in the worst light possible, which was his intent. AND - I am not commenting on his intent, I am merely pointing out that the film is full of conscious innuendo - I really cannot see how you can deny that Moreover, my saying that is not an insult to the high and much venerated by the far left MM I think he accomplished his goal, which was to present facts in such a way as to make W look as bad as possible - and he succeeded and I laud him for it But, to say the facts as depicted are all bright and shiny, self-evident, in context, and in no need of some explanation is just not accurate.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

and that is to make enough $$$ to buy 5,000,000,000,000 Krispy Kreme® glazed donuts so he can gain enough weight to try out for the role of "Fat Bastard®" in the next "Austin Powers®" movie

Hey MM, I have a movie idea for ya, It's called "2-below"...That is that you have 2 feet below that case of "dumlap" (Aka-"He gut he done lapped over his waistline")...Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Brian "Michael Moore-In comparison making rednecks and the 'Im-moral majority" not look as stupid as they do..." j.

In all actuality, almost 70% of the profits went to charity, it was a clause in the distribution contract.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by dissention

In all actuality, almost 70% of the profits went to charity, it was a clause in the distribution contract.

the "Feed the Dumb" organization...

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, as I just explained, he does not explain the facts he presents - it is like he is using quotes out of context. Instead, he shows things that require explaining - like the sound byte example earlier. So, that is not exactly presenting a clear picture even though what transpired is factual Rather, it is a conscious attempt to paint W in the worst light possible, which was his intent. AND - I am not commenting on his intent, I am merely pointing out that the film is full of conscious innuendo - I really cannot see how you can deny that Moreover, my saying that is not an insult to the high and much venerated by the far left MM I think he accomplished his goal, which was to present facts in such a way as to make W look as bad as possible - and he succeeded and I laud him for it But, to say the facts as depicted are all bright and shiny, self-evident, in context, and in no need of some explanation is just not accurate.

He didn't have to paint Dumbya in a bad light, he just had to use actual footage. Fact is, the movie was filled with facts. Facts comprised 95% of the film. What people can't seem to distinguish are the facts that were presented and Moore's conclusions that were presented. There can be no denying the facts (such as Condie Rice saying that Iraq was not a threat and could be contained, Bush sitting in a classroom for minutes and minutes for a photo-op while are loved ones died, etc.), but obviously no one has to agree with Moore's own conclusions.

As for context, do a Lexis Nexis search and you'll come to the conclusion that 99% were presented in the exact same context that they were used. Even the right-wing bloggers haven't been able to refute this.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

And that's my point: he said something incredibly serious, urged other nations fight the terra-ists, then laughed it off and played golf. Gee, maybe you should stop putting around the golf course and do what you just told everyone else to do? Instead, he showed a great deal of hypocrisy and insensitivity. Food for thought.

But - you are basing your conclusion on an incorrect premise. We know nothing of the set up of the shot do we - MM does not let us know does he? Maybe that was the only time he or the camera crew could do the soundbyte - maybe the soundbyte was unexpected and it was easier for them to come to him. There are a million reasons why the soundbyte was done. AND - if you do not think that kind of thing happens all of the time, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn

Seriously, the Pres. is allowed to play golf - that he recorded a soundbyte during it does not negate the sincerity of the soundbyte. The industry just does not work that way. In other words, if he had done another soundbyte about the tax cut right after it, would that have made it better The industry does not work that way and I think you know that

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But - you are basing your conclusion on an incorrect premise. We know nothing of the set up of the shot do we - MM does not let us know does he? Maybe that was the only time he or the camera crew could do the soundbyte - maybe the soundbyte was unexpected and it was easier for them to come to him. There are a million reasons why the soundbyte was done. AND - if you do not think that kind of thing happens all of the time, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn

Seriously, the Pres. is allowed to play golf - that he recorded a soundbyte during it does not negate the sincerity of the soundbyte. The industry just does not work that way. In other words, if he had done another soundbyte about the tax cut right after it, would that have made it better The industry does not work that way and I think you know that

We are not talking about the news industry, we're talking about Shrub's words and actions.

We'll have to agree to disagree, in the end. It all showed a lack of taste.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

He didn't have to paint Dumbya in a bad light, he just had to use actual footage. Fact is, the movie was filled with facts. Facts comprised 95% of the film. What people can't seem to distinguish are the facts that were presented and Moore's conclusions that were presented. There can be no denying the facts (such as Condie Rice saying that Iraq was not a threat and could be contained, Bush sitting in a classroom for minutes and minutes for a photo-op while are loved ones died, etc.), but obviously no one has to agree with Moore's own conclusions.

As for context, do a Lexis Nexis search and you'll come to the conclusion that 99% were presented in the exact same context that they were used. Even the right-wing bloggers haven't been able to refute this.

Here we go again - someone even looks like they are attacking MM - and you get all up in arms Bless your heart

I AM NOT ATTACKING HIM. I AM NOT SAYING THE MOVIE IS NOT FULL OF FACTS.

ALL - AND I MEAN ALL I am saying is some of the facts are presented out of context and/or require some explanation. But, you will never admit that because to admit that in your mind seemingly means MM's film is bad and/or W is getting some credit - both of which can never happen.

Put it this way, if I filmed from a bad angle W patting Laura on the back - it could look like he was beating her. Then, if I showed only that clip with no explanation, it would be factual, but not representative of the truth. In a similar way, that is what MM does in this film. I think that is unfair, but MM and apparently you, have no problem with that. So be it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

We are not talking about the news industry, we're talking about Shrub's words and actions.

We'll have to agree to disagree, in the end. It all showed a lack of taste.

So, the Pres. of the U.S. never does soundbytes out of the context of what he currently was doing. The Pres. of the U.S. is not a quasi-part of the news industry in the sense that he makes news everyday and does countless soundbytes all of the time. I think you are too smart to argue that

You are just wrong here and you know it but will never admit it. De Ja Vu

P.S. Ollie North was NEVER convicted!!!