Wouldn't it be great if Stevie...

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by amber

Isn't it nice when we can all laugh together?

Yeah, it is. Always has been.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by dissention

I agree that the lyrics are mighty important. I think Stevie writes *amazing* lyrics for the most part and I hold all of them dear for one reason or another. But in the case of Lindsey, I think the music and the production are just as important as the lyrics in evoking an emotional response and having the desired effect. For example, take "Save Me A Place." Write the lyrics down on paper and they're pretty ****ty. But then listen to the song and it's a totally different experience. It can be very affecting because of his vocal delivery, the repetitive music, and the odd production. His music is more multi-layered than Stevie's is, to me, because all of these aspects are needed to drive home the message of the song. With Stevie, even though her message can be somewhat abstract, the emotions that are being conveyed are noticeable from the get-go and the music itself takes a back seat.

In the end, I'm just a Stevie fan-boy and a Lindsey fan-boy. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have to thank you Dissention because you just make me realize why, in my opinion, Stevie's able to reach so many people.

WARNING: Stevie fan's casual rambling below! (Disclaimer: Lindsey rules too! )

Using a cinema comparison, she's like the director Douglas Sirk (Magnificent Obsession, All That Heaven Allows, Written On The Wind, Imitation Of Life). Every element of his cinema amplified the emotions in the story, and what seemed to some critics like simple and blatant melos, kept reaching on very personal levels the public of different generations and inspired experimental film-makers like Fassbinder, Cassavetes, Lars Von Trier, Almodovar. Stevie continues to inspire new generations of singers and songwriters, because of her abiity to communicate through her songs with very different kinds of audiences on extremely personal levels, and that's impressing and rare.

Hope it makes a bit of sense...

Romy

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Hope it makes a bit of sense...

Why yes. You're talking of "The Grande Esoterica", of course.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

See, why does the word "censor" have to come up?
What's being censored if we all just learn to be a little less harsh with each other? And I don't mean just you, but EVERYONE.

You and I have had the "negativity" talk before. And I think it's unfair when you throw it back in people's faces that they're the ones being truly negative for even mentioning it. So no one is supposed to stand up for themselves?
It's like telling someone in an abusive relationship to just put up or shut up.

In saying this, I am NOT saying that it's right for someone to just come along and retaliate or criticize someone for a "negative" opinion.
That's not what I'm saying here, nor is it what I've ever tried to say.

Anything I do say, always gets thrown back in my face anyway... but I've never cared about that. I can handle anything someone says to me or about me. I've just tried to stick up for the Ledgies who've felt they were being pushed down or belittled. The ones who eventually leave because they're tired of being made to feel like fools.

I had thought that people would actually care if they've hurt someone, or have driven people away, but I guess I was wrong. Everyone only cares about having things their way.

And I had hoped for some compromising from both "sides," and more respect for each other, but that's not going to happen.

No one wants to be flexible or see another point of view, and I'm tired of trying to persuade them to.

Equating comments made on this board to the bondage of an abusive relationship is a bit much, Johnny.

If someone takes offense to me saying that Lindsey would be more of a highlight than Stevie, I can't help that. But it's rather silly to take offense to that. I surely don't take offense if someone says that about Stevie because tastes are subjective.

Personally, I take offense to someone like Christopher CONSTANTLY calling me out on my opinions towards Stevie's music. I understand that he likes pretty much all of it, but he needs to remember that his tastes are not everyone elses. If he disagrees, constructively post why he disagrees with my assessment, not just type "She's the Queen of Rock and Roll" and then run. But don't call me out and obsess over the fact that every time Street Angel or something else comes up, I express my dismay over the it. It causes more problems, which is something I don't think you understand, Johnny.

The big thing that needs to be considered is that this is a public message board for people who want to discuss their opnions on the band and its members. When people make remarks about the band and it's music, it simply isn't personal towards someone who likes that particular member. End of story.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

See, why does the word "censor" have to come up?
What's being censored if we all just learn to be a little less harsh with each other? And I don't mean just you, but EVERYONE.

You and I have had the "negativity" talk before. And I think it's unfair when you throw it back in people's faces that they're the ones being truly negative for even mentioning it. So no one is supposed to stand up for themselves?
It's like telling someone in an abusive relationship to just put up or shut up.

In saying this, I am NOT saying that it's right for someone to just come along and retaliate or criticize someone for a "negative" opinion.
That's not what I'm saying here, nor is it what I've ever tried to say.

Anything I do say, always gets thrown back in my face anyway... but I've never cared about that. I can handle anything someone says to me or about me. I've just tried to stick up for the Ledgies who've felt they were being pushed down or belittled. The ones who eventually leave because they're tired of being made to feel like fools.

I had thought that people would actually care if they've hurt someone, or have driven people away, but I guess I was wrong. Everyone only cares about having things their way.

And I had hoped for some compromising from both "sides," and more respect for each other, but that's not going to happen.

No one wants to be flexible or see another point of view, and I'm tired of trying to persuade them to.

Your words have moved me. I repent. I will change whatever wicked ways i have had. Your heartfelt plea has not fallen on deaf ears.
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

If someone takes offense to me saying that Lindsey would be more of a highlight than Stevie, I can't help that. But it's rather silly to take offense to that. I surely don't take offense if someone says that about Stevie because tastes are subjective.

Saying he would be more of a highlight, is a LOT different than saying he would be "better than the headliner."

But we're not going to get anywhere on that one, I know, because we've been around this same way before.
It's a debate/argument that we can have until the cows come home, or Lindsey releases his next solo album (that was a joke, folks), and still never get anywhere.

Originally Posted by dissention

Personally, I take offense to someone like Christopher CONSTANTLY calling me out on my opinions towards Stevie's music. I understand that he likes pretty much all of it, but he needs to remember that his tastes are not everyone elses. If he disagrees, constructively post why he disagrees with my assessment, not just type "She's the Queen of Rock and Roll" and then run. But don't call me out and obsess over the fact that every time Street Angel or something else comes up, I express my dismay over the it. It causes more problems, which is something I don't think you understand, Johnny.

(Of course, I have to wonder why you feel the need to tell us how much you hate it, each and EVERY time 'Street Angel' is mentioned... but so be it. )

I have talked to Christopher before about his approach, and he has definitely toned it down.
But you also seem to forget that you're about 10 years older than he is... so maybe I just expect a little more maturity from you, and more understanding of a 15/16 year old and their enthusiasm.
It's a bit unrealistic to expect someone in their early teens to have extremely well-articulated and formulated reasonings behind their opinions and personal preferences. Some in their 20s and 30s aren't even capable of that.

But my suggestion to Christopher would be that, from here on out, don't worry about what anyone else thinks about these songs or about Stevie. I know you probably get ragged on it by your friends and in school, but you feel the way you feel about this music, and at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

If you were the last person on the face of this earth who still liked Stevie Nicks, your opinion would still be the only one that matters... because it's yours.

So if someone slams a Stevie song you like, present the opposing viewpoint. Tell us, when possible, what it is that you like about the song and what draws you to it. And through it all, remain confident in knowing that no one else's opinion matters but your own when it comes to music.

Originally Posted by dissention

The big thing that needs to be considered is that this is a public message board for people who want to discuss their opnions on the band and its members. When people make remarks about the band and it's music, it simply isn't personal towards someone who likes that particular member. End of story.

I agree, but I still feel the implications of people's tastes not being good enough to know better than to like some of Stevie's music, are a bit much. That's not just expressing an opinion of the music, that's chastizing someone else for having their opinion about it. Basically telling them that they're not smart enough to know better.
It comes across as rude, in my opinion, no matter how it's rationalized... and, as I've said, it breeds resentment.

But I think the new viewpoint that I've applied to CarneVaca, covers you as well...
Don't take a single thing dissention ever says, seriously. It's all just a joke, in order to pass the time.

So if dissention says something, laugh at the absurdity of that opinion, giving it no value or weight, and then move on as if it were never even said.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by face of glass

Why yes. You're talking of "The Grande Esoterica", of course.

How come that's Italian and I don't understand it?

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by amber

Your words have moved me. I repent. I will change whatever wicked ways i have had. Your heartfelt plea has not fallen on deaf ears.

Wise-acre.

I'm not talking about joking around with each other. (Crikey, I must be the world's worst articulator!)
I've been talking about the snide little comments about other people's tastes and intelligence.

I tell ya, if Lindsey was looking to "go insane," he should've just spent some time here!

[amber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Wise-acre.

I'm not talking about joking around with each other. (Crikey, I must be the world's worst articulator!)
I've been talking about the snide little comments about other people's tastes and intelligence.

I tell ya, if Lindsey was looking to "go insane," he should've just spent some time here!

I wasn't being sarcastic. Although in real life, people often think i am when i'm not, too, so it's ok. I guess i have trouble "doing" sincerity? So re-read my post, this time taking my words seriously. Oh, did you see I got OSOTM? (they didn't have RAL)
Amber

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by Serrart

How come that's Italian and I don't understand it?

"Esoteric" to me: hidden, secret, difficult to approach (except for those with 'the know', 'the connection', or whatever).
Posts (that you've most probably already seen) for further reference:
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...&postcount=239
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...&postcount=414
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...&postcount=432

Yeah, well. My tongue likes to twist the words like that these days. Apologies to you for me bastardising your beautiful language. Let us Europeans stick together, no matter what our tastes are. Johnny, after all, is to this board what USA is to the rest of the world.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by amber

I wasn't being sarcastic. Although in real life, people often think i am when i'm not, too, so it's ok. I guess i have trouble "doing" sincerity? So re-read my post, this time taking my words seriously. Oh, did you see I got OSOTM? (they didn't have RAL)
Amber

Oops! I thought you were... not really being sarcastic... but throwing some good-natured ribbing my way.

Since that wasn't the case, then what you said was very sweet and I appreciate it.

I did see that you picked up 'OSOTM'! Very cool.
What do you think of it so far?
It definitely takes a while to grow on some folks, while others never warm up to it. I think that mainly has to do with the production-style, but certainly has to do with the subject matter of a few of the songs, too.

Even my own view of it had dimmed somewhat over the years, but when I want back and listened to it all the way through the other day, I remembered so many of the things that I had loved about it.

Stevie calls it her "magic album," and I can see why that is. 'Mirror' has a very ethereal... almost ephemeral... quality about it. It's hard to put your finger on exactly what "it" is, because it slips away from you like those grains of sand Lindsey talks about in "Oh Diane."

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

(Of course, I have to wonder why you feel the need to tell us how much you hate it, each and EVERY time 'Street Angel' is mentioned... but so be it. )

I also have to wonder why the same people praise it to the high heavens every time it comes up.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I have talked to Christopher before about his approach, and he has definitely toned it down.
But you also seem to forget that you're about 10 years older than he is... so maybe I just expect a little more maturity from you, and more understanding of a 15/16 year old and their enthusiasm.
It's a bit unrealistic to expect someone in their early teens to have extremely well-articulated and formulated reasonings behind their opinions and personal preferences. Some in their 20s and 30s aren't even capable of that.

But my suggestion to Christopher would be that, from here on out, don't worry about what anyone else thinks about these songs or about Stevie. I know you probably get ragged on it by your friends and in school, but you feel the way you feel about this music, and at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

You're right, but I have no idea how old he is. But when I look at the young people who post on this board, most of them are just as articulate as the adults on here. And you gave him some good advice.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I agree, but I still feel the implications of people's tastes not being good enough to know better than to like some of Stevie's music, are a bit much. That's not just expressing an opinion of the music, that's chastizing someone else for having their opinion about it. Basically telling them that they're not smart enough to know better.
It's comes across as rude, in my opinion, no matter how it's rationalized... and, as I've said, it breeds resentment.

If I imply that, it most certainly isn't intentional. I think I've even said time and time again in this very thread that you like who like, you dislike who you dislike. Simple as that. But I must be too busy putting Lindsey on a pedestal to notice my own actions.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

But I think the new viewpoint that I've applied to CarneVaca, covers you as well...
Don't take a single thing dissention ever says, seriously. It's all just a joke, in order to pass the time.

So if dissention says something, laugh at the absurdity of that opinion, giving it no value or weight, and then move on as if it were never even said.

Story of my life, Le Stew.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by face of glass

Johnny, after all, is to this board what USA is to the rest of the world.

Hmm... knowing how the rest of the world tends to view the USA, I'm not sure I like that analogy!

Can't I be the U.N. instead?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

I also have to wonder why the same people praise it to the high heavens every time it comes up.

My guess is to balance out all the dissing it gets.

Originally Posted by dissention

You're right, but I have no idea how old he is. But when I look at the young people who post on this board, most of them are just as articulate as the adults on here. And you gave him some good advice.

He's mentioned his age/being in high school, on many occasions, so I figured you knew by now.
And certainly many teenagers can be extremely adept at articulating themselves (such as Jason T. is, and as Josh2003 was when he was that age), but many others are not. So it's up to us to be the mature ones, while they're finding their voice, and to try not to squash their enthusiasm in the meantime.

Originally Posted by dissention

If I imply that, it most certainly isn't intentional. I think I've even said time and time again in this very thread that you like who like, you dislike who you dislike. Simple as that. But I must be too busy putting Lindsey on a pedestal to notice my own actions.

Well, the gleaming light coming from his halo, can be a bit blinding at times.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Oops! I thought you were... not really being sarcastic... but throwing some good-natured ribbing my way.

Since that wasn't the case, then what you said was very sweet and I appreciate it.

I did see that you picked up 'OSOTM'! Very cool.
What do you think of it so far?
It definitely takes a while to grow on some folks, while others never warm up to it. I think that mainly has to do with the production-style, but certainly has to do with the subject matter of a few of the songs, too.

Even my own view of it had dimmed somewhat over the years, but when I want back and listened to it all the way through the other day, I remembered so many of the things that I had loved about it.


Stevie calls it her "magic album," and I can see why that is. 'Mirror' has a very ethereal... almost ephemeral... quality about it. It's hard to put your finger on exactly what "it" is, because it slips away from you like those grains of sand Lindsey talks about in "Oh Diane."

It's ok. I like the production. But I haven't noticed many dramatic vocals from Stevie (Except Room on Fire and Whole lotta, which i already knew from Timespace) so that kinda bums me out. So far my favorite is Cry Wolf, which i noticed Stevie didn't write. I don't think I'm gonna like Alice and Juliet as much as everyone else (major key?). I do like the lyrics on this album, I think they are Stevie plus. In that way it is magical. I'm sure it will grow on me more - actually, I like it but in a backround way...a really good backround way. It doesn't look like it's gonna be one of my "super singin'" albums, and that is what i like to do with Stevie...We'll see
AMber