Something I never understood

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I dissed her because she forced the organizers of some charity show to pay for a chartered flight from Switzerland for her and some 30 people in her entourage. It was charity. Don't wanna do it? Stay home. But asking to have 30 people flown for free in a charter flight seems arrogant, spoiled and misguided.

Well, I still don't agree that it was necessary to say that, but that incident you pointed out
does sound like it was "arrogant, spoiled, and misguided." I have to give you that. Of course, I have yet to find a celebrity who's ideal to look up to, since there isn't one, so it's not all that surprising. And we all know that members of the Mac have done things they shouldn't be proud of as well.

Hillary

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

My comment... no matter how you may have taken it... was NOT meant to imply that either Stevie or Lindsey are better people than each other.

The only way it can be construed as me making a snide jab at Lindsey, or me making an attempt to start some cockamamie Stevie vs. Lindsey thread, is by someone looking to dodge the true point of my post.

I know that and never interpreted it to mean that and never attempted to turn it into one those "cockamamie Stevie vs. Lindsey threads."

My point is that you cannot say you're sick and tired of hearing about the Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments in one breath, then bringing up one of those very same arguments in the next. You've been around here long enough to know that if you bring something like that up, fans on both sides are going to jump up and declare war. Thankfully, that hasn't happened here, but it doesn't negate the fact that a post like yours that dredges up one of those arguments (no matter if it's done in reference or not) has the possibility to start one of the very arguments you claim to despise.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Aside from that, I was harping on assumptions strictly as a reaction to GretaRhiannon's accusing me of making an assumption when I was making a joke that she missed. You are completely ignoring the context and instead choose to bring up something from long ago that has no bearing on the discussion at hand. I think you should know better. We've gotten into trouble before for harping on subjects that should have been buried.

Exactly. You said it much better than I could have, darling.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

So says you. But you're wrong. I know. I could make the case for it again, but it will bore me to tears to have to rehash that crap. So I shan't.

I'm wrong, and you're right... because you "know."
I like that.

I could ask how you "know" better than anyone else, but I won't bother. I could also ask how you're so sure that someone else doesn't "know" better than you, but I won't bother with that either.

I'll just let the comment stand for what it is.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Johnny, let's take a deep breath before we start throwing around terms like "hypocrisy." I suspect if I start hurling that around, next thing you know, I get strike three.

If you haven't seen by now that the two of us can disagree without you getting a strike for it, then I can't help you.

And as I've told you in the past... I'm not the person who gives out strikes. They're voted on. And only in extreme cases.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Aside from that, I was harping on assumptions strictly as a reaction to GretaRhiannon's accusing me of making an assumption when I was making a joke that she missed. You are completely ignoring the context and instead choose to bring up something from long ago that has no bearing on the discussion at hand. I think you should know better. We've gotten into trouble before for harping on subjects that should have been buried.

I'm not sitting here and telling you that you're wrong for defending your joke. But I am honestly surprised that you don't see anything iffy with just flat-out accusing someone of certain behaviour that everyone is guilty of.
You told the woman that you know better than she, that she's wrong in her opinion of Shania Twain.
Perhaps if you had told her that neither of you can really know for sure what kind of person Shania Twain is, but that you have your suspicions, then it would have come across differently than it did.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

My point is that you cannot say you're sick and tired of hearing about the Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments in one breath, then bringing up one of those very same arguments in the next. You've been around here long enough to know that if you bring something like that up, fans on both sides are going to jump up and declare war. Thankfully, that hasn't happened here, but it doesn't negate the fact that a post like yours that dredges up one of those arguments (no matter if it's done in reference or not) has the possibility to start one of the very arguments you claim to despise.

You win, dissention... next time I won't say anything that could even remotely be construed as the first shot fired in a Stevie vs. Lindsey war, and I'll just leave myself open for someone to call me on a statement made without any evidence or examples to support it.

Better yet, I think I should just let you guys all fight amongst yourselves and be nasty to each other, without ever trying to intervene. That way, if things do get out of control to such a degree that strikes have to be given out, then I can't be accused of anything (well, of course, excepting all the people who email and accuse you for not intervening before it got out of hand).

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

So says you [that stating Lindsey is better than Stevie is just an assumption]. But you're wrong. I know.

Oh MAN! : Still, I'm impressed you're refraining from starting an SnL war with specific recriminations. It seems those type of wars always seem to happen when the board gets a little slow and someone deems it in need of another 45 page thread. I applaud your restraint.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Johnny, let's take a deep breath before we start throwing around terms like "hypocrisy." I suspect if I start hurling that around, next thing you know, I get strike three.

Dang! When was your last strike - 2002? My advice to you: GET OVER IT already. But I see from that sig of yours you can't let go of the past. A shame, but if you want to dwell on that for the rest of your Ledge-life, you're free to do so.

Originally Posted by dissention

My point is that you cannot say you're sick and tired of hearing about the Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments in one breath, then bringing up one of those very same arguments in the next. You've been around here long enough to know that if you bring something like that up, fans on both sides are going to jump up and declare war. Thankfully, that hasn't happened here, but it doesn't negate the fact that a post like yours that dredges up one of those arguments (no matter if it's done in reference or not) has the possibility to start one of the very arguments you claim to despise.

I see what you're saying here, but I think it's clear Johnny Stew's intent wasn't to start any war. His statement can only start a war if people choose to use it as an excuse for one. I think it's good that so far, people haven't. I was being completely serious when I commended CarneVaca above. Yay Ledgies!

[Nightbirdjel]

Originally Posted by GretaRhiannon

Ok, I've had people tell me their a huge Fleetwood Mac fan, and yeah I get excited cause I dont meet that many who are my age heh, but then I ask them if they like this song or that song, and they werent ever released as singles, so only true fans know them. And they tell me they've never heard them, and that they only like the band for their hits....so, if you only like an artist for their hits, then how are you a fan???? A fan is someone who sticks by the artist, like their hits and their normal music, etc...?

OKAY-getting back to the original question....first of all, know that I am a total weirdo so feel free to roll eyes and laugh derisively. I think perhaps there are 3 categories of fans: 1) Casual fan-just listens on the radio/watches videos if they happen to come on. 2) Hardcore fan-most of you folks here. 3) Complete Psychofan like myself.
I know I'm a psychofan because:
1. I have only 2 categories of Stevie music
A. Favorites B. Lesser favorites
2. Any and every time I see Stevie I see her only as
A. Stunningly gorgeous B. Merely beautiful
3. I took up sewing specifically to make clothes like hers to wear whenever I feel like it, which is most of the time.
4. I've tried many times to pose like her in my own photos.
5. I've been collecting "Stevie stuff" since I was 13 (in 1982) and now have 6 huge overstuffed scrapbooks devoted entirely to her.
6. I have and will again pay $600 for a single concert ticket to see Stevie/Mac
....I could go on and on, but I think you get it by now!

[Violet]

Originally Posted by MirrorInTheSky

That is tooooo cute! I'd pay to see that.

I'm glad to see that you're training the next generation of FM devotees.

It was cute. To try to lighten the mood a little on this thread, here's some other Rachel/FM tidbits:

She named a stuffed cat from Build-A-Bear "Miranda", yes, after the song. Not that she understands the lyrics, of course, but she likes the music.

She knows every word to Landslide, because I sang it to her almost every night from when she was 9 months to two years old.

She knows all the bandmembers' names, but does get stuck on John's name sometimes.

She does the little lasso/dance thing during Say You Will.

On a down note, my neighbor drove her to cheerleading practice one night and they listend to Usher in the car. She said she liked it. Ugh...

Carol

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I'll just let the comment stand for what it is.

You're beginning to get it.

If you haven't seen by now that the two of us can disagree without you getting a strike for it, then I can't help you.

I know it's possible to disagree without strikes. But I think it's irresponsible to call someone hypocritical gratuitously, especially when it comes from someone who has the power to vote on strikes. You know "hypocrisy" is an incendiary word, so don't play coy or innocent on this.

I'm not sitting here and telling you that you're wrong for defending your joke. But I am honestly surprised that you don't see anything iffy with just flat-out accusing someone of certain behaviour that everyone is guilty of.
You told the woman that you know better than she, that she's wrong in her opinion of Shania Twain.

Wrong again, Johnny. I'm telling you you're wrong about this, but I never told GretaRhiannon she was wrong about anything. Quote it back to me if you can find it. You know, it's kind of funny that you're lobbing around terms like "hypocrisy," argue with Dissention about context, but continue to completely ignore the context in which I made my "assumption" comments.

Perhaps if you had told her that neither of you can really know for sure what kind of person Shania Twain is, but that you have your suspicions, then it would have come across differently than it did.

Well, I'm not terribly concerned how it comes across. I didn't insult Greta, nor was it my intent to. I was engaging in a bit of fun repartee. You come in with the "hypocrisy" charges and the game changes. I think you honestly need to consider what would happen if I started calling people hypocrites around here. Be honest.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Well, I still don't agree that it was necessary to say that, but that incident you pointed out does sound like it was "arrogant, spoiled, and misguided." I have to give you that. Of course, I have yet to find a celebrity who's ideal to look up to, since there isn't one, so it's not all that surprising. And we all know that members of the Mac have done things they shouldn't be proud of as well.

Hillary

It's not necessary to say anything, when you think about it. But we say lots of things. We agree, disagree, half-agree, remain indifferent, whatever. Such is the nature of the forum.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Dang! When was your last strike - 2002? My advice to you: GET OVER IT already. But I see from that sig of yours you can't let go of the past. A shame, but if you want to dwell on that for the rest of your Ledge-life, you're free to do so.

Let it go? Are you nuts!? Methinks you've missed the point, Nancy. I ain't complaining about the strike. I am merely making the point that if I'd had the temerity to call someone here a hypocrite, I probably would get one.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Let it go? Are you nuts!? Methinks you've missed the point, Nancy. I ain't complaining about the strike. I am merely making the point that if I'd had the temerity to call someone here a hypocrite, I probably would get one.

True, but I thought you probably didn't really believe that calling someone a hypocrite would garner you a strike, since that premise is so ludicrous in view of how often that term is used around here by many strike-less people. If you were given a strike for that, and only that, it would be unfair. Therefore, I thought your statement was designed to cast the strike-givers as unfair. Now, why would one do this? Answer: because one was still stewing about the unfairness of the strike-givers in one's own case. It sounds complicated written out, but the connection itself is not a outrageous one to make.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I know it's possible to disagree without strikes. But I think it's irresponsible to call someone hypocritical gratuitously, especially when it comes from someone who has the power to vote on strikes. You know "hypocrisy" is an incendiary word, so don't play coy or innocent on this.

I take it back then... you weren't being hypocritical. My apologies.

Maybe I can just say, "I was only joking." That seems to be the cure-all.

Hopefully GretaRhiannon also felt that she was engaging in "fun repartée" and wasn't being insulted.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

You win, dissention... next time I won't say anything that could even remotely be construed as the first shot fired in a Stevie vs. Lindsey war, and I'll just leave myself open for someone to call me on a statement made without any evidence or examples to support it.

Better yet, I think I should just let you guys all fight amongst yourselves and be nasty to each other, without ever trying to intervene. That way, if things do get out of control to such a degree that strikes have to be given out, then I can't be accused of anything (well, of course, excepting all the people who email and accuse you for not intervening before it got out of hand).

Sounds good to me.

You're still missing the point, but I'll let it go.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Hopefully GretaRhiannon also felt that she was engaging in "fun repartée" and wasn't being insulted.

Hopefully people are intelligent enough to not take comments made about celebrities and their crappy behavior personally.