What ONE issue is most important to you in this election year?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Am I the only one who is really concerned about health care? I hate the fact that my insurance is linked to my job. If I quit or get fired, it should have no bearing on my insurance, IMO. And don't even get me started on the number of folks without insurance. It's ridiculous.

- Jake

Bbbbut what about COBRA? You mean you can't afford $500 a month for health insurance on unemployment?

[Hawkeye]

Beyond that... gay rights (or, more importantly, the attempts by the Bush Administration to drum up support for anti-gay sentiments).

OK can I just say F**K gay rights. There I said it, but that's just sucha freaking minimal issue right now, it shouldn't relly matter. And the fact that the president cares more about that then terrorism and the economy combined is just wrong. So gay people like you Johnny, sorry, but just let the president do whatever he wants with gay rights and take a road trip to San Francisco or Masachusetts.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

OK can I just say F**K gay rights. There I said it, but that's just sucha freaking minimal issue right now, it shouldn't relly matter. And the fact that the president cares more about that then terrorism and the economy combined is just wrong. So gay people like you Johnny, sorry, but just let the president do whatever he wants with gay rights and take a road trip to San Francisco or Masachusetts.

Undoing civil rights is not, I repeat not, a minimal issue. It is the entire goal of these fascists. They're just dismantiling it one little bit at a time, hoping we don't notice. What do you think that little test balloon about postponing the elections was about the other day? Contingency plan? Where was the contingency plan on 9/11?

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

OK can I just say F**K gay rights. There I said it, but that's just sucha freaking minimal issue right now, it shouldn't relly matter. And the fact that the president cares more about that then terrorism and the economy combined is just wrong. So gay people like you Johnny, sorry, but just let the president do whatever he wants with gay rights and take a road trip to San Francisco or Masachusetts.

I hear what you're saying, but even if the rights themselves were unimportant (which they are not), IMO the administration's rhetoric on the issue sends a message that some people are better than others. That's not what I want my government to be standing for, and it's not the statement I want even one more generation to hear.

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

OK can I just say F**K gay rights. There I said it, but that's just sucha freaking minimal issue right now, it shouldn't relly matter. And the fact that the president cares more about that then terrorism and the economy combined is just wrong. So gay people like you Johnny, sorry, but just let the president do whatever he wants with gay rights and take a road trip to San Francisco or Masachusetts.

So basically you're saying, "just roll over and let him screw you"?

I suppose when it affects your life directly, it doesn't seem like a "minimal issue" at all.
My right to marry whom I love, and to receive the same health-care packages and tax benefits as heterosexual couples, is just as important to me as the War On Terrorism or the economy.

And if you don't think it's important... just talk to the homosexual partners of those who lost their lives on 9/11, who had to fight tooth and nail to be recognized, and to receive the same monetary compensation as their heterosexual counterparts.

Time and time again, we're told that we are second-class citizens... good enough to pay taxes and support the economy (and to lose our lives for our country, apparently), but not good enough to enjoy the same rights as everyone else.

But hey, what do I know... apparently I should just move to San Francisco and keep my mouth shut.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yeah, welcome, Amber!

Although the member list of the LIHOP group is small, we are slowly growing.

Count me in as a member of the LIHOP/MIHOP group.

And if we're supposed to be so much safer with ShrubbCo in office why is it that they almost blasted the governor of Kentucky out of the sky during the Reagan Mini-Series last month? I'll try to make a long story short here, but basically, it goes like this: The pilot of the plane carrying the governor of Kentucky to DC for one of the many, many RR funeral services realized shortly after taking off that his transponder was not working correctly. He notified the FAA/Air Traffic Controllers in the Cincinatti area which had air traffic control over the plane. As they reached the DC air space, he then notified the DC region that he had a problem with the transponder, making the plane unidentifiable on radar. Okay--that's two FAA offices/air traffic control regions that had been notified. No one bothered to let NORAD know and they scrambled two aircraft and had already received the okay to SHOOT the governor's plane down. In fact, the Capitol building was evacuated, creating minor pandemonium on the streets of DC. In fact, they were in seconds of shooting this plane down! Imagine what would have happened had this plane been shot down over the streets of DC. Not only would Kentucky have been out of a governor--a lot of innocent people would have died.

My point is this--are we really safer than we were on 9/11? It is clear that air traffic controllers, the FAA, and our military wasted precious time (more LIHOP here) and could have possibly stopped at least one and possibly more planes from hitting their targets but because of their incompetence, ineptitude or simple complancency--that didn't happen. And not one person lost their job as a result of their inactions on 9/11. Not one. And the whole incident with Kentucky's government shows that the information sharing among agencies has not improved one iota since 9/11.

Furthermore, our subways and train systems are completely unprotected. I think we all saw what can happen when terrorists strike a train system as they did in Madrid earllier this year. Where are the additional funds at that would make our public transportation systems in this country safer? Why it's almost as if we're inviting them to come on back and see what they can do to us the next time. Hmmm.

[Jason T.]

This post reminds me of "Another Conservative Moment in Texas." It was a couple of weeks before we got out for the summer and my U.S. History teacher started talking about politics with us. She brought up the train bombing in Spain and how it got the Socialists elected by the public because they would withdraw troops or whatnot. Anyway, then she went so far as to say that if another attack was brought upon the U.S., then that would be the terrorists way of getting the person THEY wanted elected...Kerry. I sat there in confusion and shock as I heard a teacher of all people making this statement...

How can people like her even think this debate is valid. I'm sorry, but since when did foreign terrorists have more say in our elections than African Americans in Florida???

Even more astonishing. I guess this makes terrorists democrats? I thought they were religious maniacs like a certain other group of people in this country?...who could I be referring to?

Some people need to open their eyes and try to realize that fear is not anything to vote on -- the really sad part is almost eveyone in my class agreed with her...

And...that's all for this episode of "Another Conservative Moment in Texas."

You can go back to your regularly scheduled debate...

[Jason T.]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

OK can I just say F**K gay rights. There I said it, but that's just sucha freaking minimal issue right now, it shouldn't relly matter. And the fact that the president cares more about that then terrorism and the economy combined is just wrong. So gay people like you Johnny, sorry, but just let the president do whatever he wants with gay rights and take a road trip to San Francisco or Masachusetts.

Whoa...that was not in good taste at all. In fact, that was almost as bad as a Toby Keith song. Seriously, no need to take your anger out on Brian here...

Bush seems to be "relly" passionate on this issue in case if you are not aware of it. He wants to reverse our progressive society and stain our constitution with his intolerance. I don't see how taking so much effort as to propose a constitutional amendment banning their God-given right to get married is a way of showing that he is more concerned about other issues. SO if you are going to minimize people's beliefs...at least have a reasonable argument to back it up.

Otherwise move to Texas or Nebraska and let us do or say whatever we want.

[Jason T.]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Shrub and intelligence go together like Lindsey Buckingham and gangster rap...No chance in hell of that!

Well, just shoot some of our dreams down, why don't you?

[CKFive]

The ouster of George Bush for the following reasons
1) A bungled national security effort. If they can’t even tell us OUR elections are secure than we are worse off than before 9/11 even with all the money they’ve spent.
2) Court appointments; it seems obvious that Bush’s main concern with regards to domestic policy is how to angle in, and generally shove down our throats his and Ashcroft’s personal sense of Christian morality. They have made it abundantly clear that they wish to manipulate the courts through appointments to achieve this.
3 To stop the outrageous deficit spending.
4 To attempt to rebuild foreign alliances that have lasted decades that Bush has managed to screw up in just a little over three years.

And I really don’t like him!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

OK can I just say F**K gay rights. There I said it, but that's just sucha freaking minimal issue right now, it shouldn't relly matter. And the fact that the president cares more about that then terrorism and the economy combined is just wrong. So gay people like you Johnny, sorry, but just let the president do whatever he wants with gay rights and take a road trip to San Francisco or Masachusetts.

I am shocked that you have the audacity to even possess that line of thinking. San Francisco is no longer issuing gay marraige licenses; they were stopped. Only residents of MA have the right to same-sex marriage. Instead of complicitly agreeing to throw away the rights of gays and lesbians, you should be doing your part to make sure they get every right afforded to them that we have. How narrow-minded and repulsive. It isn't just their rights that are ebing trampled on, it's yours and mine. Can we say Patriot Act?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

So basically you're saying, "just roll over and let him screw you"?

I suppose when it affects your life directly, it doesn't seem like a "minimal issue" at all.
My right to marry whom I love, and to receive the same health-care packages and tax benefits as heterosexual couples, is just as important to me as the War On Terrorism or the economy.

And if you don't think it's important... just talk to the homosexual partners of those who lost their lives on 9/11, who had to fight tooth and nail to be recognized, and to receive the same monetary compensation as their heterosexual counterparts.

Time and time again, we're told that we are second-class citizens... good enough to pay taxes and support the economy (and to lose our lives for our country, apparently), but not good enough to enjoy the same rights as everyone else.

But hey, what do I know... apparently I should just move to San Francisco and keep my mouth shut.

Bravo, Johnny.

No gay is a second-class citizen, they're just as equal as the rest of us. Unfortunately, the same government that hoarded Africans onto ships to stew in their urine and feces for months just so they could pick our cotton and sow the land want to brand scarlett letters across the chests of gays and tell them they aren't good enough to have equal rights.

It's sickening and an abomination to this country. But, I guess you have Lynne Cheney's piece de art of lesbian erotica known as "Sisters" to tide you over. I find it comforting that the wife of Oily Dick Cheney indulged her lesbian fantasies in such a public fashion.

Shall you ever decide to move to MA and get married, count on me to be right there throwing rice.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

But I don't feel as though I should hold that against him when I decide whom to cast my vote for; look what happened in Spain. The terrorists want to dictate who gets voted into elected offices.

This is one of those claims that drives me to distraction. It makes me positively furious.

With all due respect, how much do you really know about Spain? Your comment indicates that you've believed what you were fed by the neocon fascists who blame the election results on the terrorist attacks. Did the terrorist attacks influence the election? Without a doubt, but it isn't as simple as, "the terrorists attacked and the Spanish public ran scared." To suggest that is to show disrespect and ignorance toward a noble people.

Did you know that the very last polls before the election had the Socialists edging out the Popular Party, headed by then Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar?

Did you know that more than 90 percent of the Spanish public opposed Spain's involvement in the Iraq war yet Aznar sided with Bush and even contributed to disseminating the falsehoods about weapons of mass destruction? (Keep this in mind; it's an important point.)

Did you know that when the attack occur the sitting government insisted on blaming it on Basque separatists even after there was conclusive evidence the Basque separatists had nothing do with it?

Did you know that because of that the tide turned irrversibly against the party in power and gave the election to the Socialists who only a couple of terms earlier had been thrown out because of corruption?

Consider that for a moment: The Socialists get caught in corruption scandals and they get thrown out. The Popular Party a few years later lies to the public and the voters throw them out. Conclusion: Democracy is alive and well in Spain. When those in power violate the public trust, the public throws them out. When was the last time that happened in America?

Going back to the point about Aznar dragging an unwilling nation into an ill-conceived war: Did you know Spain was ruled by a ruthless dictator for many decades? Did you know that dictatorship ended less than 30 years ago? Thirty years. That means that more than half of the current population of Spain knows what it's like to live under a dictatorship. Is it any wonder then that when those in power violate the public trust they get thrown out expediently? In other words, Aznar played the role of a dictator by making the nation do what it did not want to do. The difference between this and the many years of Generalissimo Franco's dictatorship was that the people were able to get rid of the dictator.

So please, do me and everybody else a favor. Stop disseminating this fiction that the Spanish public caved to the terrorists. The Spanish public has been dealing with terrorism for many, many decades. It has never run scared from terrorists. Spain has a pretty good anti-terrorism apparatus, I daresay, better than ours.

Let's not project the American public's paralyzying, dumbing fear of terrorism to the good people of Spain, who have shown tremendous grit and stamina through many years of surviving terrorist attacks.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

Sorry to burst your bubble about Shrubbie but wouldn't we be much safer if the money we're currently spending in Iraq was actually used within the United States to strengthen our borders? If it was used to beef up the numbers of police & agents who could investigate terrorists on our soil? In fact there are approximately 85 billion ways that money could have been used within the United States to make us stronger.


The truth is that we are not any safer than we were on 9/11/01--we've just been extraordinarily lucky. In fact, I venture to say we are at a far greater danger now than we were because Bush has breed fervent anti-American sentiments amongst Muslims worldwide with his invasion of Iraq. And look at it another way--our military and national guard units have been stretched almost to their breaking point by the war in Iraq--meaning that not only are we without adequate defenses here in the U.S.--we're also much more vulnerable elsewhere in the World as too many of our military have been deployed to shore up the sagging reserves in Iraq. How this makes you feel safer is beyond me.

Oh--and the single most important issue to me in the upcoming election? Getting Bush out before he and his band of cronies can do any additional damage to this nation as they have already made a mockery of the US Constitution and have limited the rights of US Citizens more so than any other administration in history combined.

right on. Well said!

[Patti]

Ok, pardon my ignorance, but what is LIHOP/MIHOP?