1.9 million black votes didn't count in the 2000 presidential election

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I know. I was floored. He's basically thumbing his nose at them. He really has no right to refuse, IMO. Just like he refused to answer questions about Lay today. He works for us, damnit.

It is so funny to me - as a lawyer I go - they have the burden!!!!!!

As a human (which is VERY diff. ) - I go what a butthead

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It is so funny to me - as a lawyer I go - they have the burden!!!!!!

As a human (which is VERY diff. ) - I go what a butthead

It's about accountablility though.

[dissention]

If Dumbya persihes in November, that spells doom for Jeb. He shouldn't even bother trying to run for re-election, he'll croak.

Did you hear what John Leguizamo said at the Kerry concert last night?

"Latins for Republicans? Yeah, Roaches for Raid."

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Did you hear what John Leguizamo said at the Kerry concert last night?

"Latins for Republicans? Yeah, Roaches for Raid."

True, but a great number of the Floridian Cubans will NEVER forgive the D party for Elian Gonzales - that is their sole issue. Sad, but true.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

True, but a great number of the Floridian Cubans will NEVER forgive the D party for Elian Gonzales - that is their sole issue. Sad, but true.

Yeah, because we all know a Republican would've moved heaven and earth to let him stay.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yeah, because we all know a Republican would've moved heaven and earth to let him stay.

Well, someone has to do their yardwork

Tasteless I know - but also sarcastic, funny, pithy, and perhaps a little bit true about how some of R's think

BTW - what did Jeb say about it?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, someone has to do their yardwork

Tasteless I know - but also sarcastic, funny, pithy, and perhaps a little bit true about how some of R's think

BTW - what did Jeb say about it?

Jeb was advocating that Elian stay for three years on a work visa.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Jeb was advocating that Elian stay for three years on a work visa.

I think Jeb put that "child of God" on a raft because he knew Clinton would have to give him back to the father and the Cuban community would HATE the D's for it. Can you say conspiracy theorist!!!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think Jeb put that "child of God" on a raft because he knew Clinton would have to give him back to the father and the Cuban community would HATE the D's for it. Can you say conspiracy theorist!!!!

Conspiracy theorist or not, you're 100% right.

[strandinthewind]

A good thing by Jeb!

from www.nytimes.com
_______________________________________

July 11, 2004
Florida Won't Use a Flawed Felon List
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

IAMI, July 10 (AP) - Florida elections officials said Saturday that they would not use a disputed list that was intended to keep felons from voting, acknowledging a flaw that could have allowed Hispanic felons to cast ballots in November.

The problem could have been significant in Florida, which President Bush won by just 537 votes in 2000. The state has a sizable Cuban population, and Hispanics in Florida have tended to vote Republican more than Hispanics nationally. The list had about 28,000 Democrats and around 9,500 Republicans, with most of the rest unaffiliated.

Gov. Jeb Bush said that not including Hispanic felons on the list "was an oversight and a mistake." He added, "We accept responsibility, and that's why we're pulling it back."

Governor Bush said the mistake occurred because two databases that were merged to form the disputed list were incompatible.

When voters register in Florida, they can identify themselves as Hispanic. But the felons database has no Hispanic category, which excluded many people from the list.

Secretary of State Glenda Hood said elections supervisors would find other ways to ensure that felons were removed from the rolls.

The decision to scrap the list was made after it was reported that of the nearly 48,000 people on the list, created by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, only 61 were classified as Hispanics.

The purge of felons from voter rolls has been a thorny issue since the 2000 presidential election. A private company hired to identify ineligible voters before the election produced a list with scores of errors, and elections supervisors used it to remove voters without verifying its accuracy. A federal lawsuit led to an agreement to restore rights to thousands of voters.

Florida is one of only a few states that do not automatically restore voting rights to felons once they have completed their sentence.

[strandinthewind]

From

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...nists/27166.htm

Interesting and food for thought!!!
_______________________________________________________________

MOORE'S MYTHS

By JOHN R. LOTT, JR. & BRIAN BLASE

July 12, 2004 -- AMONG its many errors, Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" is poisoning our political debate with its fictional account of the Florida vote in 2000.
Perhaps his distortions have gone unremarked because they've been repeated so often. (Jesse Jackson, for one, still speaks of Florida as "the scene of the crime" where "[blacks] were disenfranchised. Our birthright stolen.") But still, Moore's "documentary" seems to set a new record for political dishonesty.

Consider a few of the movie's assertions:

The Fox News Channel played a major role in Bush's victory in Florida: The film shows CBS and CNN calling Florida for Gore, followed by a voiceover uttering, "Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy."

First off, Moore leaves out the fact that Fox first called Florida for Gore — and didn't call it back until 2 a.m.

Indeed, all the networks, Fox included, helped Gore by calling the Florida polls as closed at 7 p.m. Eastern time — and quickly declaring a Democrat the winner of the state's U.S. Senate race, before also saying the state had gone to Gore.

In fact, polls in the 10 heavily Republican counties in the state's western panhandle, located in the Central time zone, were open until 8. But why bother trying to vote when a trusted newsman says the polls are closed and you've already lost?

After surveying voters, Democratic strategist Bob Beckel claimed that the early call cost Bush a net loss of up to 8,000 votes. Another survey conducted by John McLaughlin and Associates, a Republican polling company, put Bush's net loss at about 10,000 votes.

"Under every scenario Gore would have won" the Florida vote if the U.S. Supreme Court hadn't stopped the count. In making this claim, Moore chooses to ignore the most definitive post-election examinations of the ballots.

Two large news consortiums (USA Today and The Miami Herald headed one; the other included The New York Times) conducted massive recounts of Florida's ballots. Both reached very similar conclusions, and neither supported Moore's claim. To quote from the USA Today group's findings (May 11, 2001):

"Who would have won if Al Gore had gotten manual counts he requested in four counties? Answer: George W. Bush."

"Who would have won if the U.S. Supreme Court had not stopped the hand recount of undervotes, which are ballots that registered no machine-readable vote for president? Answer: Bush, under three of four standards."

"Who would have won if all disputed ballots — including those rejected by machines because they had more than one vote for president — had been recounted by hand? Answer: Bush, under the two most widely used standards; Gore, under the two least used."

Unless all these news organizations are part of Moore's vast rightwing conspiracy, his claim that the U.S. Supreme Court's reversal of the Florida Supreme Court's decision cost Gore the election is based only upon his own wishes, not facts.

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush stole the election for his brother by removing African-American voters, who were likely to vote for Gore, from the rolls. Again, Moore ignores documented fact.

Some background: Florida bans felons from voting (unless they've been granted clemency). Before the 2000 vote, the state hired Database Technologies to purge rolls of felons and dead people. Some non-felons were erroneously removed from the rolls — but the errors didn't "target" minorities.

The liberal-leaning Palm Beach Post found that "a review of state records, internal e-mails of [Database Technologies] employees and testimony before the civil rights commission and an elections task force showed no evidence that minorities were specifically targeted."

The law against felon voting does have a racial impact, since African-Americans make up the greatest share of felons (nearly 49 percent felons convicted in Florida). But the application of that law in 2000 skewed somewhat the opposite way — whites were actually the most likely to be erroneously excluded.

The error rate was 9.9 percent for whites, 8.7 percent for Hispanics, and only a 5.1 percent for African-Americans.

Michael Moore has been honest in one regard: He freely admits he hopes his film helps defeat President Bush this fall. It's hard to find much else that he's been honest about, however — including calling "Fahrenheit 9/11" a documentary.

John R. Lott Jr. is a resident scholar and Brian Blase a research assistant at the American Enterprise Institute.

[CarneVaca]

After surveying voters, Democratic strategist Bob Beckel claimed that the early call cost Bush a net loss of up to 8,000 votes. Another survey conducted by John McLaughlin and Associates, a Republican polling company, put Bush's net loss at about 10,000 votes.

But wait! I thought Nader lost the Democrats the election!?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

But wait! I thought Nader lost the Democrats the election!?

Record broken?

[strandinthewind]

Electronic voting critics sue Diebold under whistle-blower law

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Critics of electronic voting are suing Diebold Inc. under a whistle-blower law, alleging that the company's shoddy balloting equipment exposed California elections to hackers and software bugs.

California's attorney general unsealed the lawsuit Friday. It was filed in November but sealed under a provision that keeps such actions secret until the government decides whether to join the plaintiffs.

Lawmakers from Maryland to California are expressing doubts about the integrity of paperless voting terminals made by several large manufacturers, which up to 50 million Americans will use in November.

The California lawsuit was filed in state court by computer programmer Jim March and activist Bev Harris, who are seeking full reimbursement for Diebold equipment purchased in California.

Issues cited by the case include Diebold's use of uncertified hardware and software, and modems that may have allowed election results to be published online before polls closed.

They are asking California to join the lawsuit against Diebold. The state has not yet made a decision.

State election officials have spent at least $8 million on paperless touchscreen machines. Alameda County, for one, has spent at least $11 million.

Under the whistle-blower statute, March and Harris could collect up to 30 percent of any reimbursement.

"This is about money now -- a case of the capitalist system at work," said March, of Sacramento. "The laws on voting products and processes are unfortunately unclear. But the law on defrauding the government is really, really clear. Going after the money trail is cleaner than going after proper procedures."

Diebold spokesman David Bear said Saturday the North Canton, Ohio-based company has not been served with the lawsuit and would not comment until it reviewed the case.

Election officials have until September 7 to decide whether to join the lawsuit, said Tom Dresslar, spokesman for state Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

Alameda County also has not yet decided whether to participate, said Elaine Ginnold of the county's registrar of voters office. She said Diebold has been "extremely responsive" in addressing problems with its system used in the March primary, which forced at least 6,000 of 316,000 voters to use backup paper ballots.

"I think we avoided a major crisis -- it would have been much, much worse had we not had those paper ballot backups," Ginnold said.

Earlier this year, California Secretary of State Kevin Shelley banned one Diebold voting system unless counties met a host of conditions, including precautions to prevent tampering and giving paper ballots to voters who prefer them.

In the March primary, 573 of 1,038 polling places in San Diego County failed to open on time because of computer malfunctions. A software bug in North Carolina's 2002 general election deleted 436 electronic ballots from six paperless machines in two counties.

Some people are critical of the use of the whistle-blower statute with its reward system for plaintiffs.

"I would like to see people support a real solution rather than just try to cash in," said Alan Dechert, founder of Open Voting Consortium Inc., whose voting system relies on nonproprietary software. "There are a lot of people who could be a tremendous asset, but they're grandstanding and reveling in the expose."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/07/12/e....ap/index.html

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Record broken?

Could be. I just like to point out the irrationality of the Democrats' argument on this issue.