Thoughts on Fahrenheit 9/11 *spoilers*

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

WHOA.... AFGHANISTAN!!!

Sorry, Jason, you've now just managed to invalidate your point completely.

Whaaaa - in post No. 53, where I brought this up, it specifically says Afganistan? Did you not read that

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Whaaaa - in post No. 53, where I brought this up, it specifically says Afganistan? Did you not read that

\

Evidently not!


Dammit, I wish I had noticed! Would have made my side of the argument infinitely easier. Dude, Moore asks him about sending his offspring to Iraq and he replies that he has a nephew going to Afghanistan. The asshole, who had a very real hand in sending thousands of people, including about 1,000 Americans to death in an illegal, unprovoked war, then has the temerity to complain about it?

Now, as an editor, I would most definitely leave that out. No question. If the nephew were going to Iraq, it then becomes a tougher judgment call. But Afghanistan!!?? Sorry, Jason, you're even more way off than I gave you credit for.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yeah, but we're not elected officials.

I guess it's okay for Dick Cheney to swear like a sailor on the Senate floor, too?

I knew you were going to bring that Cheney incident up at some point. I'm proud of you for going this long before mentioning it, really.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

I knew you were going to bring that Cheney incident up at some point. I'm proud of you for going this long before mentioning it, really.

To quote Cheney, "I feel better now that I said it."

Anybody read the article in Newsweek about the 9/11 commission not believing Cheney and Bush's testimony? It's a good one!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

\

Evidently not!


Dammit, I wish I had noticed! Would have made my side of the argument infinitely easier. Dude, Moore asks him about sending his offspring to Iraq and he replies that he has a nephew going to Afghanistan. The asshole, who had a very real hand in sending thousands of people, including about 1,000 Americans to death in an illegal, unprovoked war, then has the temerity to complain about it?

Now, as an editor, I would most definitely leave that out. No question. If the nephew were going to Iraq, it then becomes a tougher judgment call. But Afghanistan!!?? Sorry, Jason, you're even more way off than I gave you credit for.

At least you admit it would have been a tough call - I am making headway

Come on, his point was people are in harms way in Afganistan as well, whcih certainly is true. But, I agree Afganistan is not Iraq in terms of the greater harm.

Again, now that I know the exact quote, I think even more that MM should have put it in and then followed up on it.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

At least you admit it would have been a tough call - I am making headway

Come on, his point was people are in harms way in Afganistan as well, whcih certainly is true. But, I agree Afganistan is not Iraq in terms of the greater harm.

Again, now that I know the exact quote, I think even more that MM should have put it in and then followed up on it.

First of all, you don't know the exact quote, you know what the guy is telling you he said. Unless it's a deleted scene on the DVD, you don't know if he's telling the truth. (and to throw in a bit of irony- Disney now wants the video distribution rights! )

Secondly, the whole Afghanistan business just proves that Moore edited it out justifiably. His point was that no member of Congress would send their kids to Iraq, he did not say Afghanistan. Then this buffoon says he has a nephew in Afghanistan. Big whoop.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

First of all, you don't know the exact quote, you know what the guy is telling you he said. Unless it's a deleted scene on the DVD, you don't know if he's telling the truth. (and to throw in a bit of irony- Disney now wants the video distribution rights! )

The article says:

A transcript released by the film's producers shows Moore telling Kennedy that "there is only one member (of Congress) who has a kid over there in Iraq." He asks Kennedy to help him pass out literature encouraging others "to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq."

Kennedy replies, "I'd be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war. (As Kennedy did.) I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan."

To which Moore replies: "I appreciate it."

_______________________________

So, apparently it is a direct quote unless Moore's transcript is incorrect.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Come on, his point was people are in harms way in Afganistan as well, whcih certainly is true. But, I agree Afganistan is not Iraq in terms of the greater harm.

Again, now that I know the exact quote, I think even more that MM should have put it in and then followed up on it.

Sorry, dude, no way. This to me is one of the most aggravating things about politicians answering questions. You ask the guy a question, he gives an answer to a different question.

I say, no, no, no. Answer the question. Would you send your child to Iraq to fight the war you voted for? That's pretty straightforward. If you tell me, "Well, my nephew is going to Afghanistan," you haven't answered the question. Surely you would agree with me on that one, Jason. And if you haven't answered the question, why should I use an answer to a question I did not ask?

Whether your child is going to Iraq or your nephew to Afghanistan is a very, very, very different situation.

Our actions in Afghanistan were justified, at least at first. Our unprovoked attack on Iraq was not.

Now that I realize I missed this little nuance early on, I am surprised you insist on this line of argument, Jason. It makes no sense at all.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The article says:

A transcript released by the film's producers shows Moore telling Kennedy that "there is only one member (of Congress) who has a kid over there in Iraq." He asks Kennedy to help him pass out literature encouraging others "to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq."

Kennedy replies, "I'd be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war. (As Kennedy did.) I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan."

To which Moore replies: "I appreciate it."

_______________________________

So, apparently it is a direct quote unless Moore's transcript is incorrect.

I stand corrected.

Still don't agree with you, though.

[Merf]

I just saw this movie for the first time with my Dad today, and all I did was cry.

I just don't know what to say. God bless you Harvey Weinstein, for having the balls to sack up and release this movie. I hope it stays in the theaters long enough for every registered voter to see it-- the fact that there are people sitting out there who won't see this movie and will vote for GW in November just ASTOUNDS me.

If enough people see this movie, Kerry will win by a landslide in November. How could he not? Bush is a thief, a criminal, and a terrorist. GOD, the bit about the marine corporal telling Michael Moore he would be willing to go to prison rather than to go back to Iraq to kill more poor people that did nothing to us.... and Lila Lipscomb. How could someone not be moved by this film? I cried the whole way through.

And Bush is a LIAR. How could I forget that? And don't even COMPARE this to Clinton-- Clinton lied to us about getting a blow job in the oval office... HOW CAN THAT EVEN COMPARE TO WHAT BUSH HAS DONE??????? I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Merf

I just saw this movie for the first time with my Dad today, and all I did was cry.

I just don't know what to say. God bless you Harvey Weinstein, for having the balls to sack up and release this movie. I hope it stays in the theaters long enough for every registered voter to see it-- the fact that there are people sitting out there who won't see this movie and will vote for GW in November just ASTOUNDS me.

If enough people see this movie, Kerry will win by a landslide in November. How could he not? Bush is a thief, a criminal, and a terrorist. GOD, the bit about the marine corporal telling Michael Moore he would be willing to go to prison rather than to go back to Iraq to kill more poor people that did nothing to us.... and Lila Lipscomb. How could someone not be moved by this film? I cried the whole way through.

It made $4 million yesterday alone and is expanding to 2,000 theaters this weekend, it's not going anywhere.

I cried just as much, the whole thing was heartbreaking. How did your dad like it? I hope he did!

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Merf

GOD, the bit about the marine corporal telling Michael Moore he would be willing to go to prison rather than to go back to Iraq to kill more poor people that did nothing to us.

That was one of the most telling moment in the movie. Also, the part when the soldiers are all gung ho about attacking, then some of then come on to say how they are affected by the destruction and death they caused. That's the kind of thing that ruins a lot of these guys for life.

[Merf]

Originally Posted by dissention

It made $4 million yesterday alone and is expanding to 2,000 theaters this weekend, it's not going anywhere.

I cried just as much, the whole thing was heartbreaking. How did your dad like it? I hope he did!

My dad is a card carrying member of moveon.org, So this is his second time seeing it. He will probably go see it a couple more times. He took my brother and sister to see it the day it was released. (I had school and work). I went to the 1:30 show on a Wed. afternoon and the place was about 60% full. Impressive.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Sorry, dude, no way. This to me is one of the most aggravating things about politicians answering questions. You ask the guy a question, he gives an answer to a different question.

I say, no, no, no. Answer the question. Would you send your child to Iraq to fight the war you voted for? That's pretty straightforward. If you tell me, "Well, my nephew is going to Afghanistan," you haven't answered the question. Surely you would agree with me on that one, Jason. And if you haven't answered the question, why should I use an answer to a question I did not ask?

Whether your child is going to Iraq or your nephew to Afghanistan is a very, very, very different situation.

Our actions in Afghanistan were justified, at least at first. Our unprovoked attack on Iraq was not.

Now that I realize I missed this little nuance early on, I am surprised you insist on this line of argument, Jason. It makes no sense at all.

I have agreed with you that Iraq is more dangerous than Afganistan and MM asked about Iraq and children not other relatives.

My point is the Sen.'s point, which is what we are discussing. The Senator's point was, I think, soldiers are in harm's way in Afganistan as well. He would be correct, although certinly not as much harm as in Iraq. I never referred only to Iraq in my previous posts. I just referred to war, going overseas, etc.

I also think it would have been good of MM to bring out exactly the point you are making, which I again agree with, " Well, Sen. big whooo - Afganistan hardly if Iraq - Why not send your nephew to Iraq instead while you are passing out these pamphlets you just agreed to distribute." i think that would have been effective.

No one reads what I say

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Merf

My dad is a card carrying member of moveon.org, So this is his second time seeing it. He will probably go see it a couple more times. He took my brother and sister to see it the day it was released. (I had school and work). I went to the 1:30 show on a Wed. afternoon and the place was about 60% full. Impressive.

If it was 60% full on a Weds. afternoon, you know this movie is going to have some legs.

I plan on seeing it again on Saturday; there's so much to soak in and I'm fascinated with watching the other moviegoers and their reactions.

And give your dad a shout out from me, good for him!