liberals....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I will tomorrow, I don't have the energy right now; it's past midnight.

And besides, this thread has gotten too nasty even for my tastes.

I agree, but when you call someone a liar and do not back it up, you should not be surprised when they call you on it Actually, I think other than that, we were being civil for us

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

"I am waiting
I am waiting
For the truth to come out of your keyboard"

Bless your heart you are being antagonitic this evening. i fully answered your question and you know it. You just cannot admit I have been accurate all night and it is eating you up

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree, but when you call someone a liar and do not back it up, you should not be surprised when they call you on it Actually, I think other than that, we were being civil for us

No, it's gotten a quite nasty and I'm not too keen on it.

I've posted so much in the past that refute what you posted as fact when it comes to Saddam and inspections, if you haven't read it, it's your problem and not mine. If I have to, I'll post it again tomorrow, but not now because I'm tired.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Good night honey.

Pleasant dreams to the rest of you.

Good night.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

No, it's gotten a quite nasty and I'm not too keen on it.

I've posted so much in the past that refute what you posted as fact when it comes to Saddam and inspections, if you haven't read it, it's your problem and not mine. If I have to, I'll post it again tomorrow, but not now because I'm tired.

I am sorry if the truth that SH played cat and mouse with the palaces in the beginning of the negotiations for inspections does not fit into your points. But it is the truth as best as I remember it. I cannot change that. Again, I am not arguing that SH did not cooperate with Blix. I am arguing about the negotiations for the inpesctions. And you have never answered in this thread or anywhere else why SH never produced evidence that he destroyed his WMD - which was his burden for 11 years to do. I think that is an important point because if he had done that, none of this would have happened. It just amazes me how people (not necessarily you) are just willing to let him slide on that one and instead focus on the inspections. But, I thijnk I have angered you by putting you in a corner. That is interesting to me because I always concede a poit when I am wrong. I do not understand when others cannot. Again, whenever you are ready to prove SH did not play cat and mouse a the beginning of the negotiations for the inspectors and when you are willing to provide an explanation of why SH did not meet his burden of proving he destroyed the WMD or even that we did in the 1998 bombing, I am all ears. But, if you want, we can drop this right now with the full knowledge that it will only come up again

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But I agree during his administration an astute US Canadian border guard stopped the Y2K LA airport bombing. But, I am unsure Clinton was directly responsible for that. I think it was a border guard going their job.

Mohammed Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Mahmud Abouhalima and Ahmad Ajaj -Ramzi Yousef,Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman,-caught and convicted in the World Trade Center Bombings.
Timothy McVeigh-caught and convicted in the Oklahoma City Bombings.
Terry Nichols-caught and convicted in the Okalanhoma City bombings.

Clinton tried, really tried to find Bin Laden.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

To the best of my knowledge, we have been looking for OBL since the Afghanistan invasion. The media never report in that action; it was mentioned briefly when Pat Tillman was killed and has since vanished.

Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Mohammed Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Mahmud Abouhalima and Ahmad Ajaj -Ramzi Yousef,Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman,-caught and convicted in the World Trade Center Bombings.
Timothy McVeigh-caught and convicted in the Oklahoma City Bombings.
Terry Nichols-caught and convicted in the Okalanhoma City bombings.

Clinton tried, really tried to find Bin Laden.

I agree Clinton's regime caught and convicted those, although I think there were more in OK City, but that is a whole other thread.

I agree - and if we had the tech we hace today we probably could have acted on those sat. photos - apparently such a quick reaction was not all that possible at that time.

I also think the Bush Admin. essentially ignored the Clinton admin.'s warnings about OBL and Al-Q, much to our detriment.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire.

I did not know that. That blows. Apaprently many were in Afganistan. You would think there would be a way to prevent that with all of our technology.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Timothy McVeigh-caught and convicted in the Oklahoma City Bombings.
Terry Nichols-caught and convicted in the Oklahoma City bombings.

McVeigh was found guilty on the Federal level for the deaths of 8 Federal officers and given the death penalty and was eventually executed...Never tried on State charges, He died taking any knowledge of others who helped in this act with him.

Nichols was found guilty of conspiring with McVeigh and damage to Federal property and was given 40 years in Federal prison, He was found guilty on 162 State charges of murder but escaped the death penalty due to a deadlocked jury during the sentencing phase (A judge will decide now on either life w/the possibility of parole or life w/out the possibility of parole) He will not publicly admit his part.

Michael Fortier received 12 years in Federal prison for knowing about the bombing in advance and did nothing to stop it. He has claimed that others helped McVeigh & Nichols, But claims they may have been foreigners and not American citizens.

Just think, If Oklahoma would have passed the concealed gun law 1 year earlier (Went into law January 1996) McVeigh would have never been held in jail, He would have bailed out on traffic violations (No tag, No registration) within 2 hours after he was stopped, arrested & booked and could have easily disappeared...If not for a fluke traffic stop history could possibly have been really different.

But since concealed weapons in 1995 were illegal in the state of Oklahoma he was arressted. The Perry municipal judge's docket was backupped with a major divorce case settlement the morning of April 19, So McVeigh was not able to bail out on the gun charges alone. By early afternoon the pictures of John Doe #1 & #2 (John Doe #2 sure looks eerily like the enemy combatant Jose Padilla, Coincidence?) made the air here in Oklahoma and the police thought McVeigh looked very similar and held him...Not knowing for sure if he was a suspect, They (Law enforcement in Perry) delayed releasing him for a couple of days with some minor excuses (ie-Paper snafus), By then the FBI made it known that they definitely had a suspect in their hand...

The rest is a very clouded/shrouded history.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree Clinton's regime caught and convicted those, although I think there were more in OK City, but that is a whole other thread.

remembered, That is interesting about the OKC conspiracy because it has possible ties to 9/11 & the airport where one of the flights (American Airlines Flight 11) on 9/11 originated from:

One of the "supposed other" Murrah conspirators that eyewitnesses claim they saw in the presence of McVeigh leading up to the days of planning the OKC bombing was a former Iraqi soldier (Hussain Al-Hussaini) who alone moved to the US (Oklahoma City specifically) to escape from the terror of SH. He was questioned repeatedly over time about any connection to McVeigh/Nichols and when no possible connection was found he was released and seemingly disappearred from the publics eye.

This former Iraqi soldier reappearance is quite interesting because he was arrested at Boston's Logan Airport immediately after 9/11 (If I remember it was like a few days after 9/11) for illegal paperwork, Which no one payed attention to, But after he was arrested (Due to falsifying records to obtain a security related job, A he job started and held right before 9/11) it made news here in Oklahoma due to his possible connection with McVeigh (There have been 100's of eyewitnesses who saw this man in the passenger seat of the Ryder truck on the morning of April 19,1995)...Coincidence? Possibly, but very disturbing to some and a possible link the causes alot of people to say there was an even wider conspiracy in OKC.

My opinion on it is mixed, But it makes an interesting coincidence.

[CKFive]

Some year’s back, I encountered a homeless woman and her children on the street, begging for help. She told me she’d been burned out of her apartment, and cut off welfare as a result. The welfare office refused to help her find another place to live, she said. She’d have go to some other office clear across town. Well, I gave her some money, but I also got the phone number of her caseworker.

That woman hadn’t been selling me a phony sob story; the caseworker confirmed her account in every detail. The welfare office wasn’t allowed to help her with housing, or even to contact the housing agency on her behalf. So here she was pounding the pavement, begging for help, because one city agency wouldn’t make a ****ing phone call to another city agency. But I’ll bet they had plenty of time to call Dial-A-Joke or porno lines.

First off section 8 housing is a federal program and not only transferable within a city, but transferable to any other state as well. Any real-estate agent in any city can direct you to an apartment or house that will accept section 8. Why would this be? Because it’s guaranteed money for the landlord

Liberals are supposed to be the friends of the poor and oppressed. Maybe they were, once. But many of them today are just social parasites, whose bureaucratic programs and earnest causes are devoted more to securing their own government jobs or making them feel good about themselves than to truly aiding the poor, the homeless, the unemployed, racial and ethnic minorities, gays, whatever, whoever.

So what dear readers do the conservatives have to right this fictional wrong? “Screw these people and give me more free money”

Just as the old-line right-wingers thought nothing could be worse than a Communist (Nowadays, they may be split between secular humanists and Islamic fundamentalists as bêtes noirs.), ivory tower liberals still believe that nothing can be worse than a bourgeois. It is a prejudice that has a long history, going back at least as far as French novelist Gustave Flaubert ("Hatred of the bourgeoisie is the beginning of wisdom.").

Of course, the liberal intelligentsia can argue that its contempt for the working class turned bourgeoisie is well-earned: just look at Archie Bunker. Anyone who thinks there aren’t still a lot of Archie Bunkers out there, even 20 years after All in the Family, must be living on Mars. But there is an obvious element of hypocrisy here: can anyone seriously believe that working class whites were more bigoted in the 1970s or afterwards than they were in the 1930s when they were celebrated in proletarian fiction?

Among European intellectuals, there has long been a contempt for the common people almost as virulent as that of British aristocrats of old. "A tepid mass of flesh scarcely organized into human life," Virginia Woolf called them. But perhaps even more virulent has been the liberal intellectual romanticization of the antisocial and even the criminal as preferable to the bourgeois, which has crossed the ocean in recent decades.



Jean Paul Sartre once wrote a hagiography of Jean Genêt, the thief turned poet and playwright, who had demonstrated his authenticity by "choosing" to be a thief. Without arguing about the literary merits of either writer, let us imagine that Genêt had "chosen" to be a doctor — not a Park Avenue plastic surgeon, mind you, but a doctor dedicated to service of the poor. Would Sartre have canonized him?

This is actually fairly slick propaganda; it simultaneously vilifies liberals as some how connected not only to communists, and Europeans, but to historically anachronistic communists and Europeans. While at the same time making sure to point out that you can’t really trust intellectuals.

This is classic conservative “faux moderate” wherein we are supposed to see that their position is in fact the only viable one because hell the author of this isn’t a conservative. Heck all the middle of the road types is signing on.

I think I’ll still vote for John Kerry. No wait a second

I’m actually an undecided leaning towards Kerry.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am sorry if the truth that SH played cat and mouse with the palaces in the beginning of the negotiations for inspections does not fit into your points. But it is the truth as best as I remember it. I cannot change that. Again, I am not arguing that SH did not cooperate with Blix. I am arguing about the negotiations for the inpesctions. And you have never answered in this thread or anywhere else why SH never produced evidence that he destroyed his WMD - which was his burden for 11 years to do. I think that is an important point because if he had done that, none of this would have happened. It just amazes me how people (not necessarily you) are just willing to let him slide on that one and instead focus on the inspections. But, I thijnk I have angered you by putting you in a corner. That is interesting to me because I always concede a poit when I am wrong. I do not understand when others cannot. Again, whenever you are ready to prove SH did not play cat and mouse a the beginning of the negotiations for the inspectors and when you are willing to provide an explanation of why SH did not meet his burden of proving he destroyed the WMD or even that we did in the 1998 bombing, I am all ears. But, if you want, we can drop this right now with the full knowledge that it will only come up again

I told you repeatedly last night that I would tackle your lies today because I was tired. If that's not good enough for you, tough tacos. It may be the truth as you best remember it, but it isn't the truth according to the facts.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I did not know that. That blows. Apaprently many were in Afganistan. You would think there would be a way to prevent that with all of our technology.

Like the flak jackets they never got?

BTW, mocking his death is beneath you.

[mylittledemon]

I am apalled by Farenheit 9/11 and I'm also amazed at the amount of people that are taking this as total truth.

There are a few things you have to remember.

1) It's from Michael Moore's point of view. He's the brains behind it. I believe he's a staunch democrat but he's also as far to the left as you can get. That borders on liberal. To me, that's worse than just SAYING you are a liberal. He's got a hidden agenda, as most liberals do.

2) It's a MOVIE! Michael Moore is making a big paycheck off this. He's a guy out there trying to make a living. Don't think for a minute he's not sitting back laughing and flipping thru his stack of money.

3) Moore is also a big Kerry supporter. When all is said and done, you have Bush in your right hand and Kerry on the left. I know that Kerry will not take matters into his own hands. He will bend to his parties' will and will not fight terror. He even stated he'd apologize to the terrorists if and when he took office! That's scary to me. I'm not a proponent of war, but damnit, if it's them or us, it sure as hell better be them!