Producer for a new album

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Oh I love it when I get to pull out my big red dic.

From http://www.merriamwebster.com/cgi-bi...a=plagiarizing

Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: 'plA-j&-"rIz also -jE-&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -rized; -riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
transitive senses : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive senses : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
- pla·gia·riz·er noun

According to that, she either has to credit Poe or have her songs labeled "PLAGIARIZED."

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

According to that, she either has to credit Poe or have her songs labeled "PLAGIARIZED."

Did you read my second post!!!!

She is not passing his stuff off as her own. She is taking it and rewording it to support her own idea and story. That is inspiration, not plagiarization Annabell Lee (sp.?) is plagiarization IMO because it is not her story it is his

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Did you read my second post!!!!

She is not passing his stuff off as her own. She is taking it and rewording it to support her own idea and story. That is inspiration, not plagiarization Annabell Lee (sp.?) is plagiarization IMO because it is not her story it is his

I read the definition, not your interpretation of the definition.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I read the definition, not your interpretation of the definition.

me too!!!!! Come on admit it - I got ya cornered She is not plagiarizing becuase she is using his stuff for inspiration and making up her own stories. That, according to the big red dic. is not plagiarizing

[Johnny Stew]

Lindsey better start adding a Brian Wilson to the production credits of all of his releases then.

Actually, he probably should add Todd Rundgren while he's at it.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

me too!!!!! Come on admit it - I got ya cornered She is not plagiarizing becuase she is using his stuff for inspiration and making up her own stories. That, according to the big red dic. is not plagiarizing

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own

She took his ideas, changed a few words, and passed it off as a La Nicks original.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Lindsey better start adding a Brian Wilson to the production credits of all of his releases then.

Actually, he probably should add Todd Rundgren while he's at it.

I would have no problem with that. It still wouldn't change the fact that I love his msuic, and the same goes for Stevie.

[dissention]

It's been fun, boys, but my ass is pooped.

TTYL.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own

She took his ideas, changed a few words, and passed it off as a La Nicks original.

No she did not do that. She is not telling the same story as Poe did. She is telling her own story. She changed the words so they convery her idea, which is sep. from Poe's story. So, she did not "steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own" they are her words and her ideas not Poe's. Was Poe talking about the Planets of the universe goining their way and not paying attention to the breakup of these two. I do not think so It is just not within the textbook definistion of plagiarism. It does, however, indirectly borrow heavily from Poe with changed words and meanings in a few places. But that is different.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Annabell Lee (sp.?) is plagiarization IMO because it is not her story it is his

"Annabel Lee" would only be considered plagiarism if it appeared on an album with the notation "written by Stevie Nicks," because it is a word-for-word copy of someone else's work.

"Lyrics by Edgar Allan Poe, Music by Stevie Nicks," would be the appropriate credit.

But to borrow someone else's line or phrase as a starting point, and then reinterpret it, isn't considered plagiarism.

If what Stevie does (and not even all that frequently, I might add) was considered plagiarism, she would have been slapped with lawsuits by the estates of Wilde and Poe years ago.

And if Phil Spector couldn't sue Eddie Money for the use of the line "be my little baby," AND having Ronnie Spector sing it, then Poe's estate couldn't sue for "skies on fire," etc.

Once again, it's all just a mountain made out of a mole-hill.

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

"Annabel Lee" would only be considered plagiarism if it appeared on an album with the notation "written by Stevie Nicks," because it is a word-for-word copy of someone else's work.

"Lyrics by Edgar Allan Poe, Music by Stevie Nicks," would be the appropriate credit.

Exactly. This is what Loreena McKennitt has done on some of her releases.

Unless Stevie releases the song under only her name, it's not plagiarism.

- Jake

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by dissention

Good choice!

Personally, I'd like to hear a Tom Petty produced album. But that's just me.

Holy cow! Why did I not think of that?! 'Twould be awesome!

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

Holy cow! Why did I not think of that?! 'Twould be awesome!

Especially if he turned her down, which might inspire a great song: "You produce your songs yourself, That made me stronger..."

- Jake

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by dissention

The (Enchanted) tour itself rocked because it was great hearing those songs and her voice was top notch, but you can't deny that she opted out of doing most of the rock songs.

Not any more than on any one of her previous tours!

...And there were still plenty: Enchanted, Stop Draggin', Gold & Braid, Stand Back, Whole Lotta Trouble, Edge Of 17, I Need To know.

What's that...1/2 the setlist?!

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by dissention

I love Stevie just as much as you guys, but I just recognize what I see as crap from someone who could have done much better.

In an ideal, problem-free life, maybe so. I think she was kickin' ass considering what she, as a human being, was going through at the time. I admire that she was determined to keep going despite health battles, criticism, etc. But even Stevie Nicks is not invincible and she did eventually have to take her break from '94-'96. And I admired her for that too...to say "enough for a minute"! Up until that point, she'd never allowed herself to do that. It wasn't hard, as a fan, to understand why she needed to do that...her dedication to her fans and work ethic are unmatchable.

Originally Posted by dissention

What were once thoughtful and emotionally stirring lyrics became cliched and ridiculous. It may be Stevie Nicks singing them, but it isn't Stevie Nicks to me.

That last sentence implies that you have an ideal of Stevie as "a star" and cannot grasp her as a human being. It was Stevie in the 90's because...who the hell else was it??!!! That was who she was at that time, and if it doesn't move you, no one can force it down your throat. But to describe her work at that time as "cliched and rediculous" is seriously pissing me off!

Originally Posted by dissention

When I put on a Stevie Nicks song, I do it because I feel as if she's speaking my language and there is a person out there who I feel writes songs for me. That wasn't there at that time. She was at a time where her life, in general, was in a bad state and she recorded a lot of that music in the same state of mind; it wasn't as satisfying as it was back in the day because all of her creativity was sapped. That, in turn, sapped her enthusiasm and high spirits and we were given a lot of lackluster songs that reflected her own disappointment with her music.

I completely understand the "speaking my language" bit. So then how could you not hear the emotion in Stevie's voice singing, "I am trying to be strong" in Destiny? That's where she was at the time, and I am interested in hearing this album as a reflection of this because I want to experience all of her ups and downs with her. That's where Stevie has always taken us. You can tell in interviews and performances from '94 that she was on her way to becoming the very happy person that she is now, but she was tired from the implant and Klonopin recoveries. I think it was an epic time in her life.

Originally Posted by dissention

No, it's nothing new for Stevie to resurrect a couple of old songs, but almost all of the songs she wrote and used for Street Angel were old songs; the rest were written by other songwriters. Surely it stands to reason that someone can come away form that album thinking she was most definitely not at in a creative period.

Of course, this was her least creative period. But, again, I'm interested in taking any journey with her. And it all wonderfully led to Petty snapping her out of it. Everyone has to hit a low before they can rise back up.

Originally Posted by dissention

As I've said before numerous times, her and her songs would not be forgotten by people, especially us fans, she just would not have been a viable or bankable solo artist. We can call it a "what if" situation, but other saying that she would have bounced back without The Dance are using the same "what if" arguments.

True. But you should say "may not have been" instead of "would not have been". There's no way you could ever know/prove that. I guess I just don't give a rip if she was ever "bankable" again. I'm not necessarily saying you care, either, I know you're probably just arguing a point. But I have to admit such talk bores me to tears. I also don't really see Stevie as 'compare-able' to her "female contemporaries", even though comparing also bores me to tears. I always felt her vibe was more trying to "keep up with the men". And though it nearly killed her on more than one occasion, I think she has 'succeeded', however she may define that. ("And only The Highwaywoman keeps up with the likes of those...")

Originally Posted by dissention

That's understandable, but it doesn't negate the fact that I think her output during those years was pure ****.

I can't do this anymore!!!!!