Enron Tapes!!! - Page 7

gldstwmn · #91 06-02-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

I dunno, but this just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

Kerry is one of 100 senators who voted to allow Bush to use force against Iraq if Iraq did not comply with UN mandates to reveal and destoy all WMS's in their possession. Kerry did this with the assumption that the intelligence and information presented to him by Dubya was valid.

Now one could agree with that decision or one could not. However, the separate and more important issue is:

Dubya intentionally fabricated lies in order to deceive congress and the public thereby gaining the power to unilaterally declare war on Iraq for whatever purposes he thought were important.

I think that Congress (which would include Kerry) does not bear equal responsibility, nor equal scrutiny, for the situation in Iraq than the Bush administration. Period. I think if Kerry would have known what Bush was up to, he wouldn't have voted the way he did.

Don't forget that Bush was to go back to Congress again and he did not, he went ahead and invaded a country which he knew had no WMD's.

gldstwmn · #92 06-02-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Who could've guessed that pointing out the lie of Ken Lay and Shrub not meeting would've resulted in this behemoth of a thread?

Oy.

Clinton's penis knew. It's all it's fault.

gldstwmn · #93 06-02-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Here is an article supporting what I am saying - Granted from a right site - but I have no time to research these quotes right now.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...7/134653.shtml

Major foul. NewsMax is ****. I think they're also linked to that freak show, Storm Watch or Storm Front or whatever that Neo-Nazi site is called. I mean really, check your sources.

gldstwmn · #94 06-02-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Rubbish, I have consistently said W is bad without any help from the D's. My beef is the D's do not fight him enough and often agree with him and allow him the means to be bad. So, I think the D's are concurrently bad for that. I am not saying the complacency of the D's in any way takes away from W's bad acts. Any reading of that intent into my posts is incorrect and hopefully, herein clarified.

Whatever.

dissention · #95 06-02-2004, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Clinton's penis knew. It's all it's fault.

That damn head of his is always getting him in trouble!

dissention · #96 06-02-2004, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Uh huh.

BTW, are you listening to Palast on Randi?

Must you ask?

dissention · #97 06-02-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

from
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/s...2002_1009.html

In this October 9, 2002, specch, which I think I have cited before

, Kerry states (in part):

Yes, and that is from '02, not '98. He didn't want to go to war in '98.

dissention · #98 06-02-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Don't forget that Bush was to go back to Congress again and he did not, he went ahead and invaded a country which he knew had no WMD's.

Don't forget that he went behind Congress' back and misused Afghanistan funds, which should have gotten him impeached.

strandinthewind · #99 06-02-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Don't forget that Bush was to go back to Congress again and he did not, he went ahead and invaded a country which he knew had no WMD's.

with the full support of John Kerry, the Democratic nominee, who fuly shared that belief and continues to share to this day

I mean come on you guys, I just want to hear you once call a spade a spade

Wishful thinking I know - but I can wish can't I

gldstwmn · #**100** 06-02-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

with the full support of John Kerry, the Democratic nominee, who fuly shared that belief and continues to share to this day

No. Bush didn't go back to Congress-so no.

gldstwmn · #**101** 06-02-2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Must you ask?

strandinthewind · #**102** 06-02-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Yes, and that is from '02, not '98. He didn't want to go to war in '98.

Bless your heart, I am beginning to think you are just messing with me because your arguments, which are usually lucid, are making no sense. That 2002 specch indocates Kerry willingly and with full knowledge of all the facts he cared to know voted to allow Bush to go to war. In that 2002 speech, he says for the last decade SH has had WMD and was an immediate threat to the world order. In 1998, he advocated for a sitting President (presumably not limited to Clinton) to use force "if necessary" to make SH comply. Clinton thought is necessary and used force. Then, UNDER THE SAME RATIONALE let me repeat THE SAME RATIONALE one more time THE SAME RATIONALE, Kerry willingly and knowingly voted to allow W to, if necessary, to use force to make SH comply with proving he disarmed. W chose to use more force than Clinton. But, in both events, Kerry voted to allow them to use any force necessary. That to me suggests if not states, Kerry, like W and Clinton, thought SH had WMD and was a threat with them. That also suggests if not states that Kerry, like W and Clinton, fully agreed to use force to make SH comply. So, I think they are in the same boat. I get that Clinton sent a few missiles instead of a full on invasion. But, at the time, everyone was scared to death that SH would resond by sending a few missiles in Isreal, which would then attack Iraq. So, Clinton's few missiles could have very easily turned into what we have now only worse because we would be defending Isreal.

So, this is the last time I am saying this. W was wrong to lie about the Niger stuff and wrong to suggest OBL and SH were bosom buddies. But, W was not off base about the WMD according to Kerry, Clinton, and a host of other D's. So, I think if we say W completely misjudged the WMD, then so did Kerry and Clinton. I AM NOT SAYING that Clinton's and Kerry's involvement excuses W or diminishes his culpability. I am just saying they are all guilty if you do not believe that W ever thought SH had WMD.

strandinthewind · #**103** 06-02-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

No. Bush didn't go back to Congress-so no.

He did not have to and you know it. Kerry had already given him the authority twice, once in 98 and once in 2002. Moreover, the Pres. of the U.S. does not have to ask Congress before manuvering troops - See the War Powers Act.

strandinthewind · #**104** 06-02-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Clinton's penis knew. It's all it's fault.

I canot believe you guys are making fun of me when I have made a legitimate agrument. You KNOW I am not arguing W is excused because Clinton and Kerry did it too. Let's play fair or not at all.

dissention · #**105** 06-03-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

In 1998, he advocated for a sitting President (presumably not limited to Clinton) to use force "if necessary" to make SH comply.

You finally said it! Hooray!

Kerry advocated air strikes to make Saddam comply with IAEA and UNSCOM inspections (you know, the org's that he kicked out after it was discovered that some of the inspectors were US spies). What he did not advocate was invading the country. See the difference?