i hate George Bush! - Page 17

gldstwmn · #**241** 04-30-2004, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Even if this werr for oil I really wpouldn't mind because thats a good a s reasonas any, really gas prices will be the thing that causes a country to collapse. So if thi swar would'v elowered them that'd have been fine in my book. But they haven't they've gone up

They're manipulating the market on purpose.

gldstwmn · #**242** 04-30-2004, 11:02 AM

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...1232-6958r.htm

Baghdad, , Apr. 29 (UPI) -- Six U.S. soldiers in Iraq are facing court martial for abusing and torturing Iraqi prisoners at a prison near Baghdad, CBS reports.

The network said it had obtained dozens of photographs taken by soldiers of other soldiers inflicting pain or humiliation on the Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison, which was known as a torture chamber under former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

In some of the photos, the male prisoners are positioned to simulate sex with each other. And in most of the pictures, the U.S. soldiers are laughing, posing, pointing, or giving the camera a thumbs-up.

Last month, the U.S. Army announced 17 soldiers in Iraq, including a brigadier general, had been removed from duty after charges of mistreating Iraqi prisoners, and said it had launched an investigation.

"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of coalition operations in Iraq.

The Army investigation confirmed soldiers at Abu Ghraib had not been trained in Geneva Convention rules. And most were reservists, part-time soldiers who didn't get the kind of specialized prisoner of war training given to regular Army.

gldstwmn · #**243** 04-30-2004, 11:08 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...207162,00.html

Michael Hann examines the air of secrecy and silence surrounding the US media's treatment of George Bush's 'war on terror'

Friday April 30, 2004

American contractors and soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners in a prison outside Baghdad? A huge story, by anyone's standards, surely, especially when pictures of the abuse were broadcast on the US TV network CBS.
So it was no surprise that newspapers around the world made huge, horrified play of the events at the Abu Ghraib prison. It was more of a surprise, however, that the story did not receive the same level of coverage in the US papers.

The Baltimore Sun, however, was damning in its verdict. "Television footage of the mistreatment of Iraqi war prisoners by their American captors was shockingly disturbing and hauntingly reminiscent of the horror stories from the regime of Saddam Hussein," it said. Punishment of those responsible, it added, would not on its own be sufficient response. "The Pentagon must be held accountable if the military failed to provide the training, staffing, supervision and leadership required to ensure that prisoners of war are treated humanely."

Perhaps the difference between the US coverage and that elsewhere should have been expected. CBS admitted it had come under severe pressure from the Pentagon not to broadcast the images, and the issue of what is and what is not fit for US public consumption has been an ongoing theme, applicable to events both domestic and foreign.

Tonight, for example, the ABC network's Nightline programme is to feature host Ted Koppel reading the names of all members of the American military killed in Iraq, while pictures of them appear on screen. But, as the New York Daily News reported, one local broadcasting group that controls eight ABC-affiliated stations has "angrily pulled" the show, claiming the naming of the dead "is a blatant anti-war ploy".

The White House reacted angrily last week to the publication of the flag-draped coffins of US soldiers who have died in Iraq. But Daniel Schorr, writing in the Christian Science Monitor, wondered why. "Considering that no individual identification is visible in the pictures, it is hard to understand the justification for clamping the secrecy lid on the solemn procession of flag-draped coffins being carried off the cargo planes," he wrote. "I cannot avoid the suspicion that President George Bush - who has yet to attend to a funeral service for any of the honoured dead that he has sent to war - has no interest in calling attention to the mounting number of casualties in a battle that was far from over last May 1, when the president declared 'major combat operations' in Iraq had ended."

The appearance yesterday of Mr Bush and vice-president Dick Cheney before the commission investigating the 9/11 attacks provided another example of the debate. "There was no press coverage allowed, no recording, no transcript to be made available later, no testimony given under oath - and no good reason for any of it," said the Boston Globe.

"Mr Bush, who pulled the nation together in 2001, might have done so again yesterday by displaying a willingness to be open - at least in transcript form - about what may have gone wrong on his watch ... [And] going public before the commission with that attitude might have won Mr Bush international respect."

As Alessandra Stanley put it in the New York Times: "On a day when viewers could watch American marines battling rebels in Falluja and see Jayson Williams squirm in his courtroom seat while awaiting a verdict on manslaughter charges, the blackout at the White House was striking; throughout the day, the torrent of words used on cable news shows to describe the meeting ('exceptionally rare', 'extraordinary', 'historic') clashed almost comically with the meagre visual images ... The nonvisual event was so anathema to television that at one point, the CNN anchor Daryn Kagan said it seemed as if 'the event took place in the 18th century'."

The whole aim of the event had been to make Mr Bush look "solemn and presidential, capturing the news for a full day of headlines that can't help but further tie down his campaign stance as the wartime president", scoffed James Ridgeway on the Village Voice website. He argued that the event had "little to do with informing the public". It was "just a nice friendly get-together".

A contrast to the secrecy and silence that seem to be characterising this stage of Mr Bush's "war on terror" came from the supreme court on Wednesday. The justices heard the cases of two US citizens jailed after the 9/11 attacks, on the grounds of being enemy combatants. Yaser Esam Hamdi was captured in Afghanistan, suspected of fighting for the Taliban, and Jose Padilla was arrested at Chicago airport on suspicion of planning to detonate a radioactive bomb.

The supreme court allowed the hearing to be broadcast live, on the grounds of exceptional national interest, a decision welcomed by the Los Angeles Times.

"For too long ... justices have been skittish about letting Americans listen in on their proceedings while the justices are still deliberating," said the paper. "But the compelling broadcasts of Wednesday's hearing in the enemy combatant cases, which turned into a dramatic civics lesson, demonstrate why the public should be able to hear all cases that quickly." The recordings, said the Times, showed the justices posing "appropriately sceptical questions" about Mr Bush's insistence in his right to order detentions, and would "encourage Americans to wrestle with these questions along with the justices".

gldstwmn · #**244** 04-30-2004, 11:21 AM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_nm/iraq_dc

45 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!

By Fadel Badran and Michael Georgy

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines handed control in Falluja to a former general in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Republican Guard on Friday but new violence showed that a month of fighting in the besieged Sunni Muslim city was not over.

In a reversal of Washington's previous policy of excluding senior members of Saddam's Baathist regime from power, Jasim Mohamed Saleh said his new force would help police bring order and relieve a month-long siege that has cost hundreds of lives.

"We have now begun forming a new emergency military force," he told Reuters, saying people in Falluja "rejected" U.S. troops.

But Marine commanders insisted that their men, who pulled back from many positions during the day but fought guerrillas in others, would keep overall responsibility in the city and continue operations against suspected foreign Islamic militants.

They described Saleh's force of 1,000 or so former soldiers as an Iraqi battalion under U.S. control.

But Saleh, cheered by crowds waving the Saddam-era Iraqi flag as he drove through his home town in his old uniform, said local people wanted Falluja to be run by Iraqi forces only.

U.S. officials have struggled to stamp out open insurrection in Falluja while avoiding more bloodshed that has cost more American lives in April than any other month in Iraq (news - web sites) and turned many Iraqis against them. They have begun to recruit some former Baath party members to help restore order and basic services.

U.S. OFFICIALS CAUTIOUS

President Bush (news - web sites), watching sliding poll numbers ahead of November's presidential election, gave commanders a free hand in Falluja this week and the Pentagon (news - web sites) sent more tanks.

But the improvised peace deal appeared to have averted an all-out assault on the city of 300,000 -- for the time being.

"We should be very careful in thinking that this effort to build this Iraqi capacity will necessarily calm down the situation in Falluja tonight or over the next several days," said General John Abizaid, the U.S. Middle East commander.

Minutes later, explosions shook the eastern outskirts and a senior military spokesman said two Marines were killed by a car bomb near their base outside Falluja on Friday.

Marine commanders issued a statement saying: "The coalition objectives remain unchanged -- to eliminate armed groups, collect and positively control all heavy weapons and turn over foreign fighters and disarm anti-Iraqi insurgents."

The siege, mounted after four American security guards were murdered a month ago, has killed 600 people, according to local doctors, and has become a source of grievance for many Iraqis, especially the once-dominant Sunni minority in Saddam's heartlands of the "Sunni triangle" west and north of Baghdad.

Winning over Iraqi opinion is important for Washington as it prepares to hand over formal sovereignty to an interim government in Baghdad on June 30 while leaving more than 100,000 U.S. troops in a country where many are clearly still hostile.

Washington suffered a public relations blow in that regard on Friday when Arab television channels broadcast pictures, first aired in the United States, seeming to show U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners in Saddam's notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

Since Bush declared an end to "major combat operations" a year ago on Saturday, 428 U.S. service personnel have been killed in action in Iraq, 127 of them in April alone. Fewer than 100 died in the three weeks it took to topple Saddam.

EX-GUERRILLAS "WELCOME" It was unclear what influence the new Iraqi force in Falluja has over the estimated 2,000 or so guerrillas, some of whom U.S. officials say are diehard Saddam supporters. Some 200 foreign Islamic militants have also been active, U.S. officials say.

One Marine officer said that if those Iraqis who had been fighting in Falluja joined Saleh's force that would not be a problem for the U.S. troops: "It's not a bad thing because they're not on the wrong side," he told Reuters.

Some in the ranks were not happy to be leaving the battlefield and said they were ready to fight again if needed.

"It's a mistake. People have lost lives in Falluja and now they die for nothing. But we have to give the Iraqis the chance to prove they can do it by themselves and we can still go back if it doesn't work," said Corporal Clint Burfort from Iowa.

A relative of Saleh said he had been chief-of-staff of a brigade of the elite Republican Guard before transferring to a regular infantry division. Senior officers were expected to be members of Saddam's Baath party. The U.S. occupying authority disbanded the 375,000-strong armed forces after last year's war.

People who had fled homes in Falluja lined up at military checkpoints to return but troops let few pass into the town.

Iraqis who suffered oppression by Saddam's armed forces had mixed feelings about the move in Falluja.

Mahmoud Othman, a Kurd on the U.S.-appointed Governing Council, said it was worthwhile to end fighting. But he added: "It's not a good precedent...As usual, the Americans, without consulting anyone at all, have gone ahead with a policy to replace an earlier, failed policy...I'm not crazy about coming back to make a deal with someone from the Republican Guard."

Around the southern holy city of Najaf, U.S. forces are tightening a squeeze on the Mehdi Army militia loyal to rebel cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, who has taken refuge among shrines sacred to Iraq's long oppressed

dissention · #**245** 04-30-2004, 11:52 AM

Got articles?

dissention · #**246** 04-30-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...1232-6958r.htm

Baghdad, , Apr. 29 (UPI) -- Six U.S. soldiers in Iraq are facing court martial for abusing and torturing Iraqi prisoners at a prison near Baghdad, CBS reports.

They should be thrown in jail ASAP.

However, the US has to stop continuing their tours of duty. These people are going crazy and this shouldn't be done to them. It should be six to eight months tops.

dissention · #**247** 04-30-2004, 12:27 PM

Did you hear what Shrub said today?!?!

"People whose skins are a different color than white CAN self-govern."

Unbelievable.

And Clinton's book is #1 all across internet booksellers six weeks before it's release.

Boy, I sure do miss him.

gldstwmn · #**248** 04-30-2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Got articles?

I so want the picture in your sig line. I love Randi.

gldstwmn · #**249** 04-30-2004, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Did you hear what Shrub said today?!?!

"People whose skins are a different color than white CAN self-govern."

Unbelievable.

And Clinton's book is #1 all across internet booksellers six weeks before it's release.

Boy, I sure do miss him.

He referred to the "brown people" in his press conference.

I miss the Big Dog too.

My daughter was in her history class the other day (she goes to a private, parochial school, very conservative type place) and the teacher asked the kids if they knew how the 2000 election was won. My kid immediately pipes up "Yeah, they stole it."

DeeGeMe · #**250** 04-30-2004, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

The IRA should be condemned for their tactics on one hand, but on the other hand, the British gave them no other option. When the British army fired upon the civilians in Derry in'72, they themselves gave the IRA there biggest weapon. It was the Brits who wiped out the civil rights movement due to what occured that day. Basically they handed many of those previously inclined to peacefully protest for their rights, over to the IRA. What makes me sick is that the British officers were decorated by the Queen.

And this is a fine example of why I said what I said earlier about the IRA. I don't condone their tactics either, but given the long history of how the Irish have been opressed by the English, I certainly understand how the IRA came into existence and how they felt they had no other choice but to resort to radical measures to get their message across.

DeeGeMe · #**251** 04-30-2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

He referred to the "brown people" in his press conference.

I miss the Big Dog too.

My daughter was in her history class the other day (she goes to a private, parochial school, very conservative type place) and the teacher asked the kids if they knew how the 2000 election was won. My kid immediately pipes up "Yeah, they stole it."

Goldie--it's very obvious that not only are you raising your daughter up right but you've got one smart kid there too! That story made my day!

ShamHy89 · #**252** 05-01-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

What's this, our tertiary education system is now the 2nd worst in the western world (2nd only to america)?

Education = major problem. What was the country thinking when they elected this guy? Oh wait...

Shamus

dissention · #**253** 05-01-2004, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

He referred to the "brown people" in his press conference.

I miss the Big Dog too.

My daughter was in her history class the other day (she goes to a private, parochial school, very conservative type place) and the teacher asked the kids if they knew how the 2000 election was won. My kid immediately pipes up "Yeah, they stole it."

He's an asshole, nothing more and nothing less.

I've told you before, but your daughter rocks. You did a bang-up job raising her, IMO!

As for Clinton, once again, boy, do I miss him!