Is Rumours an album of catchy pop tunes

[stefan]

I still can't get over the fact that the majority thinks the album is not a pop album. I mean it`s not like namecalling or cursespelling or something like that. You don't have to chew soap after saying this word. Here we go: Pop pop pop pop pop- see nothing happens to me. Pop pop pop- still I am alright. You still can like Rumours after someone says it`s pop. Pop pop pop- you still like it? Good. Still I think it`s pure pop. See I like pop albums. Although Tusk is my FM favourite (which I don't regard as a pure pop album) TITN is an example for a clear and pure pop album that I love. So nothing is wrong about pop albums in general imo. Now please admit that Rumours is a pop album. Would you all please do that?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by stefan

I still can't get over the fact that the majority thinks the album is not a pop album. I mean it`s not like namecalling or cursespelling or something like that. You don't have to chew soap after saying this word. Here we go: Pop pop pop pop pop- see nothing happens to me. Pop pop pop- still I am alright. You still can like Rumours after someone says it`s pop. Pop pop pop- you still like it? Good. Still I think it`s pure pop. See I like pop albums. Although Tusk is my FM favourite (which I don't regard as a pure pop album) TITN is an example for a clear and pure pop album that I love. So nothing is wrong about pop albums in general imo. Now please admit that Rumours is a pop album. Would you all please do that?

I do not think people are saying pop = bad music. I certainly am not. What I am saying is that when released, Rumors had some main stream stuff on it (SHN, IDWTK, and DS), but the remaining songs were not pop because they were very different than what was being played on the radio at that time. The album was a huge success. So, those different sounding songs became emulated and, thus, pop. In other words, the success of Rumors defines Rumors as pop even though the majority of it was not in the scheme of the times.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

Wait, does that mean that if it's different to the majority of what's on the radio that it isn't pop?

Well, yes As noted earlier "pop" means what is popular. At the time Rumors was released, the vibe of music was turning from heavy 70's guitar crunching bands to disco. There was some in between stuff, but that was mainly it. So, in that sense Rumors broke new ground. I believe the press of the day called it a fresh California pop-rock sound. So, Rumors was pop in the sense that it defined radio for a long time. But, it was not pop in the sense that it was merely a restatement of the sounds currently playing on the radio at that time. In other words, it definitely set a trend and was a leader not a follower.

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Having been alive at the time Rumors was released and having been a radio buff years before then, I can say that although Rumors became the standard for pop music, the actual songs were trendsetting it design and execution. Radio had never heard anything exactly like GYOW and GDW, esp. the percussion parts. Although Dreams is very popular to this say, Stevie's spacey and trippy execution of those brilliant lyrics was not really done before except perhaps by Heart. Don't Stop and YMLF are pop, but CM is/was a pop favorite and I love her for it. Havinmg said that, Oh Daddy is FAR from pop, esp. then when the whole Mid East vibe was nowhere on the radio. Interestingly, I think the only exact homnages to pure pop are IDWTK, which is straight Everly Brothers esq. two part harmony from the late 60's, and SHN which although brilliant, borrowed heavily from the Bee Gee's pop standard Jive Talking. Finally, Silver Springs was not pop in the sense that nothing that sounded like it was on the radio at the time. So, while yes, Rumors became the pop standard, it was different in design and execution than pretty much what was being played on the radio at the time. Thus, I vote no.

I agree completely. With respect to it's time, it was not typical am radio pop. Disco and one hit wonders were the songs all over am radio in '77. Songs penned and produced by musical hit factories using paid songwriters and session musicians were thought of as pop. Back then am was pop music and fm including "FM" (the band) was album oriented rock. People listening to FM were looking for new sounds and harder sounds (especially harder guitar like we'd think of as metal today) Rumours crossed over both audiences as the singles propelled interest among the masses, but the early fans of Rumours were fm listeners who were more hard rock fans (fans of the blistering guitar, GYOW, DS) and what we called acid rock (freaky, head trip music you listened to while getting stoned, GDW, Oh Daddy) . The fact that Rumours was a whole concept, intentional or unintentional, and the songs ran the table in a variety of music styles, is the key reason it was the best selling album to that time. It was not considered just pop when it was first released. It became the standard of what I like to call classic rock. I still have a hard time calling it pop since those of us who were big radio listeners then, we didn't consider it pop when we first heard it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

I still have a hard time calling it pop since those of us who were big radio listeners then, we didn't consider it pop when we first heard it.

EXACTLY!!!!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Sting once said it's much easier to write songs in minor keys, than major keys.

Good thing Jake isn't around, you'd have to run and hide for bringing up Stink's name.

[stefan]

Pop music is accessible music. That's why they called the FM sound California pop rock. Of course there are slight variations between pop, rock, pop rock, soft pop and so on. Every child gets a name. But just because Lindsey adds a guitar solo here and there Rumours is not groundbreaking weird experimental stuff. And it never was. This is not the Tusk discussion thread. And of course is Oh daddy pop music (and a dragging one imo but that`s a different discussion)
Otherwise stuff like Scooter or other Eurotechno stuff would be pop music which it is clearly not although it receives heavy airplay over here.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by stefan

. . . But just because Lindsey adds a guitar solo here and there doesn't make Rumours groundbreaking weird experimental stuff. And it never was.

No song I had ever heard sounded like GYOW - the percussion and guitar work (esp. the countering acoustic) were very experimental for the time. As Carne has said, it was a big risk for GYOW to be a single because it was so relatively quirky when compared to what was on the radio at the time. Dreams as well. No one had had a voice dance around a bass line like that. Then The Chain (esp. the extended bass line bridge) and GDW (the shattering glass, the shieks, the moans, the heavy heavy lyrics) were all experimental for the times. As I said before, GDW could have been on Tusk and I think was a foreboding wave to the genre of Tusk. Then Oh Daddy with is Middle Eastern flavor, a genre that was nowhere on the radio at the time. So, I conclude Rumors was a fresh breath of creative influence that defined the late 70's California sound (with a little help from The Eagles of course ).


But, yes, Rumors became and in fact defined pop for a long time.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Then Oh Daddy with is Middle Eastern flavor, a genre that was nowhere on the radio at the time.

Doesn't it just piss you off that they didn't use the version on the Rumours bonus disc? I mean, talk about bad decisions. That version chills me to the bone, man. What an amazing song.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Doesn't it just piss you off that they didn't use the version on the Rumours bonus disc? I mean, talk about bad decisions. That version chills me to the bone, man. What an amazing song.

Yes. I always thought Stevie and the brilliant CM should have done a duet. That version of Oh Daddy is the closest thing to that we are ever gonna get. When I first heard that version I just stopped what I was doing and stood there and listened to it - mouth agape. I think that version is a perfect example of Stevie's incredible ability to use her voice as an instrument and her inate sense of harmony. Not to mention CM is never wrong IMO.

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by David

To me, pop is all about the song: as a distinct whole & piece by piece, fashioned (sometimes painstakingly) into a whole in which each element plays a key role, balanced against & complementing the other elements. In other words, "pop" as opposed to genres with other concerns, namely metal & prog.

Oh indeed. But then again that comment seems to ignore the intricacies that the most well-known prog bands put into their arrangements. Isn't the best, timeless pop music about that too? (think ABBA, Burt Bacharach's productions, the Beach Boys, the Beatles, the Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac, etc.)

I agree with Jason on this, pop music does not equal bad music. I think it's far more difficult to craft the perfect pop song than just to grab that old battered acoustic guitar and be confessional for the billionth time in one's career. Neil Young does that and yet he still has more integrity than many pop musicians, even the greatest. Damn 'em rules of coolness.

If catchiness equals bad then I don't agree with that sentiment either. Rumours is a catchy album almost throughout (I say the songwriting in "Dreams" doesn't have a coherent hook in it, when those guitars and harmonies appear then it finds its important #1 hook). "Gold Dust Woman" is one of Stevie's catchiest songs in the traditional sense and yet it's performed in a way that could get anyone disturbed in their sleep. The songwriting provides the accessibility, the performance comes directly from the Patti Smith book.

And everything on Tusk is as memorable as on Rumours; the writers didn't change their way of writing, they (or HE) changed the recording approaches.

Rumours isn't just a pop album, it's a song cycle, relative to the '60s classic albums. Compared to the seemingly random post-modernism of Tusk, it's no wonder it's more appealing. But I still won't say that the other is more artistic and the other is more superficial. Tusk may have its layers of emotions spreaded out here and there and might thush suffer in some people's eyes. Rumours speaks to people more directly and still avoids the banal trappings. 'S a great album, no matter how overplayed it is in the rest of the world. In Finland I can pretend it's the greatest underground album ever and complain how Peter Green is overrated in peace.

(and sorry for the redundancy).

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Yes. I always thought Stevie and the brilliant CM should have done a duet. That version of Oh Daddy is the closest thing to that we are ever gonna get. When I first heard that version I just stopped what I was doing and stood there and listened to it - mouth agape. I think that version is a perfect example of Stevie's incredible ability to use her voice as an instrument and her inate sense of harmony. Not to mention CM is never wrong IMO.

I put it on repeat and listened to it ten times in a row. I think it's the best thing on the reissues (next to Planets and Brushes). If they had such good stuff, just imagine what could've been on in place of Mic the Screecher.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I put it on repeat and listened to it ten times in a row. I think it's the best thing on the reissues (next to Planets and Brushes). If they had such good stuff, just imagine what could've been on in place of Mic the Screecher.

LOL - I think the screeching noise is the amplified noise of a razor lining up coke on a mirror

I also think the SHN news alt. version is better than the album cut.

[stefan]

To me the success of Rumours is based on the uncommon fact that there are 3 different songwriters and also singers, male and female, in one band and on one record. They grabbed first attention with a good success on the predecessor and so there was something to build on. Then you have the popular drama story we have heard about often enough as I guess. Honestly I would be glad never to hear about it again in any interview of the band. Never. But O.K. And then you have extremely catchy songs like GYOW and Don`t stop. Or Dreams-Stevies uncommon voice and the fact she was very pretty- that grabbed a lot of peoples attention. I couldn't name a lot of bands with 3 prominent front people- so that is a really extraordinary. You have got all you need here:
A story behind the music
A beautiful female star
Catchy pop tunes
3 different voices and songwriters

Strand I guess we can discuss it until we turn blue and green, seems like we have to state that we simply disagree. Completely disagree to be precise. I will go on stating that Rumours is a pure and plain pop album because it contents catchy pop and pop rock songs everyone could be familiar with at once. And I too lived back in 77 and listened a lot to the radio even though I was a child. I did not fall from the chair after hearing GYOW, which received a lot of airplay.

[face of glass]

There's bits where the homogenous harmony works fine and bits where you'd rather hear Stevie.

The album version of "GYOW" should be closer to the live versions in that Stevie should be allowed to be more prominent.

But then again, even though I think SN is one of the best harmonizers in rock (in that she doesn't blend in, she DEMANDS attention), the harmonies in the alternate "Oh Daddy" don't really add anything more to it than what the final cut has.

Why don't you just get a time machine and go kick LB's, KC's and RD's butts and tell them which takes they should use?