so, lindsey or stevie? who owns this album more?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

But I don't remember Lindsey even implying that he was mostly responsible, just stating that he had contributed a lot to it. There's a difference. I'm sure if he did you will be able to find it, though, so I'm not precluding the possibility that I've forgotten. However, I think you're just remembering it a little wrong, that's all.

Not remembering it wrongly, I just have a different interpretation from yours.

[Hawkeye]

So, I think it is safe to assume they thought SYW would sell at least a million and it did not.

first of all it still could sell a million copies. I believe it's at 815,000 now not 800,000 That's really very close to million. And I believe Warners did not expect SYW to sell what it has. Here's why. SYW outsold Maddonna's latest CD by a Landslide (pun intended) But Madonna has been platnum for a while and SYW is not, which I really believe it should be. The reason's why Warners shipped more of Madonna and it failed. But it didn't expect much from Fleetwood Mac, it didn't ship all that much of it and it's sales far exceeded their expectations.

[Hawkeye]

Lindsey should take credit for his work on Thrown Down. He really took the song to another level. Anyone who listens to the demo must acknowledge that.

Oh AMEN. I gringed when I found out that that horrible Thrown Down was going to be on SYW. But when I heard the song on the CD, WOW. What Lindsey did with the song was MAGIC. It's like he had a magic wand in his hand when he was producing Thrown Down.

Now the Smile At You thing I'm mixed on. I was at first of course dissapointed by the change from the demo. But I love what he did to the song, although I also love the song before he did what he done. I can't decide which I like better. That last minute of the album version of SYW is better then anything on any demo. I still miss the oure fire of the angry version. But I'm glad he did what he did, because now we have Smile At You As it is, and as it was, so we have two almost comletely different songs to enjoy.

[teedee]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Here's some advice for you: A sentence starts with a capital letter, i.e., A instead of a. Also, see this thing after the question mark? . That's called a "period." That's how a sentence ends. Try it out. Otherwise stop wasting your time replying to my posts.

Just continue as you were, as not reading them and skip, ok? Thank you.

[teedee]

[QUOTE=sodascouts]You don't knock Stevie for bringing her piano demos to Lindsey. However, you often knock the demos themselves because they are so repetitive, simplistic, etc. This implies that Stevie is unable to edit herself. By bringing Lindsey a near-complete track, she has obviously done so. Yet, instead of commending this, we treat is as something to criticize.


Once again Carne, your famous line of "please go back and quote where I said such a thing" and im teedious.... Its the way you imply the negative, can you not see that? Just because its not in the exact wording, you imply just that. You make for alot of the negative reactions, do you think ppl here can not see thru your wording. You always state a plus, with a bigger negative.

[teedee]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Another example of irony?

Just incase you forgot, it doesnt matter to me.

Nothing personal.

Yeah Irony? Right back at ya.


not directed at you soda

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

first of all it still could sell a million copies. I believe it's at 815,000 now not 800,000 That's really very close to million. And I believe Warners did not expect SYW to sell what it has. Here's why. SYW outsold Maddonna's latest CD by a Landslide (pun intended) But Madonna has been platnum for a while and SYW is not, which I really believe it should be. The reason's why Warners shipped more of Madonna and it failed. But it didn't expect much from Fleetwood Mac, it didn't ship all that much of it and it's sales far exceeded their expectations.

It could, but odds are it will not at around less than 5,000 a week sold, etc. I am guessing with that number, but clearly it is not selling in the tens of thousands a week or it would be in the Top 100. I wish, however, it would and stranger things have happened

I am basing my guess that WB thought it might sell more on the huge press it got at the time of release that FM got (Today Live, Leno, numerous interviews, AOL First Listen, NBS slots in popular series, etc.) - WB must have been behind these. Then, the HUGE large arena tour. Then, the comments from Mick about selling millions and that LB would be crushed if it sold only a few hundred thousand (or something like that). Then, the HUGE price for that house, the advance which was sweet enough to trump other offers. All those things add up to WB and FM hoping for a runaway record. I mean why would WB and FM put all of that money into something they did not think would be a success. I would not. I would have chosen a much safer route if I thought my investment had a little to no chance of paying off in a bog way. I mean I am sure all parties realized the bet was less than 50/50 as evidenced by Stevie's comments on the general record buying public. But, the foregoing things make me think they thought about big results from this record, which failed to materialize.

[Johnny Stew]

Just a few thoughts....

Originally Posted by dissention

If Warners said that the cost would be low to do a double, why then didn't they do it? Lindsey sure as hell wouldn't have said no.

I answered this earlier, but it might have gotten lost in the shuffle... Lindsey was offering to take a loss on a double, because the band would only get paid up to 12 tracks. He was going to put up the difference so that Stevie, Mick & John would get paid the full amount.
The part Stevie was commenting on, was the fact that Warner Bros. came back to the band with the promise that they could keep the list-price down... which alleviated Stevie's fears that a double album would be too expensive for many of the more casual fans to purchase.

Originally Posted by dissention

Why would Stevie record a full album of material if she wanted a single disc? Because when most artists record an album, they don't just record an albums worth of material; they record more and then decide what they want to use. It's just common practice.

Yes, you're definitely right about artists recording more material for an album than what they'll ultimately use.
In my haste to finish my post, I didn't articulate my thought-process correctly.
I think Bon Jovi and the Rolling Stones traditionally record twice as much as they'll need, purposely... but where Fleetwood Mac and Stevie are concerned though, I don't think they've ever purposely completed two times more than they'll need (except 'Tusk,' of course, where it seems that fairly early on they decided that they wanted to release a double album, and worked to that end).
There may be a few songs that are fully completed and not released on an album... stuff like "Silver Springs" and "Garbo"... but most often, other songs that they started working on will be abandoned before they're finished, and especially before they're mixed and mastered (ie: "Julia," "Sanctuary," the original "Planets Of The Universe" and "Think About It").
So they might have about four completed songs "leftover," but not another twelve completed songs.
So it just seemed unlikely to me that Stevie would follow the process of recording all of these songs, and seeing them all completed during the mixing and mastering process, and then at that late point in the game, threaten to bail out early on the tour, if the album isn't released as a single disc, with only 5 or 6 of her songs.

Originally Posted by dissention

If he had said he was "completely responsible" for TD, half of these people would **** where they sit and break their keyboards in anger. God forbid if Lindsey gets some credit for Stevie's songs.

Not me. I want Lindsey to get all of the credit he deserves (and he deserves a LOT of credit for his talents).
I'm just here to make sure he doesn't get more than he deserves, by siphoning credit away from the other extremely talented members of this band.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Oh AMEN. I gringed when I found out that that horrible Thrown Down was going to be on SYW. But when I heard the song on the CD, WOW. What Lindsey did with the song was MAGIC. It's like he had a magic wand in his hand when he was producing Thrown Down.

Now the Smile At You thing I'm mixed on. I was at first of course dissapointed by the change from the demo. But I love what he did to the song, although I also love the song before he did what he done. I can't decide which I like better. That last minute of the album version of SYW is better then anything on any demo. I still miss the oure fire of the angry version. But I'm glad he did what he did, because now we have Smile At You As it is, and as it was, so we have two almost comletely different songs to enjoy.

I liked the very first demo I heard of "Thrown Down," as I thought the song had a LOT of promise. But Lindsey definitely took it to another level for 'Say You Will.'
A lot of people actually prefer that "wall of sound" version, but my heart belongs to Lindsey's final product on the album.
"Smile At You" is another example of a lot of people preferring an earlier version of the track, but again, I prefer Lindsey's arrangement on the album best. It has almost a Middle-Eastern feel to it, and whereas the old demo is more of a straightforward Stevie belter, the album version became more haunting and intriguing. In my humble opinion.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

. . . "Smile At You" is another example of a lot of people preferring an earlier version of the track, but again, I prefer Lindsey's arrangement on the album best. It has almost a Middle-Eastern feel to it, and whereas the old demo is more of a straightforward Stevie belter, the album version became more haunting and intriguing. In my humble opinion.

My only beef with SAY on SYW is that Stevie deleted a whole bunch of great lyrics. I think the song needs those even though I like anyway.

As for TD, I think Hawkeye was referring to the original syth demo., which I HATED, but I could be wrong. Also, while I like the song, I think the chorus is a little anti-climatic. I wish they would have jazzed it up a little. But, such is life . . .

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

As for TD, I think Hawkeye was referring to the original syth demo., which I HATED, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I think that's the one he meant, too.

I just re-read that part of my post, and I'm kind of mentioning both versions in the same breath, so unfortunately it looks like I was referring to the "wall of sound" version as the one that I thought had a lot of promise.
Actually, I was referring to that original synthy version that Stevie demoed around the time of 'TISL.' And then I was commenting on the fact that most people seem to prefer the "wall of sound" version.

I should have made that clearer.
(And, hey, look at that! We finally have a blushing/embarrassed emoticon!! I'm gonna be using this sucker a lot! )

[Hawkeye]

I was refering to the original solo demo. But I also believe Lindsey made the right decision going with the album version and not the Wall of Sound version.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

You don't knock Stevie for bringing her piano demos to Lindsey. However, you often knock the demos themselves because they are so repetitive, simplistic, etc. This implies that Stevie is unable to edit herself. By bringing Lindsey a near-complete track, she has obviously done so. Yet, instead of commending this, we treat is as something to criticize.

I knock the demos because demos bore the **** out of me. So shoot me. I don't listen to Given Thing, the My Little Demon demos or the Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind demo. I'm not as excited about the reissue bonus discs because I don't have patience for demos and outtakes. So does this make me a Stevie hater? Perhaps a little perspective is needed here.

Obviously you're speculating - speculating that once again Stevie is bringing Lindsey down. Of course people will react negatively to that. This surprises you?

Suggesting that bringing him near-finished product might hinder his creativity as a producer is the same to you as "bringing him down?" Let's get a little more dramatic, shall we? [That was sarcasm.]

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Another example of irony?

Not at all.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by teedee

Just continue as you were, as not reading them and skip, ok? Thank you.

Don't flatter yourself. I didn't even try to read that mess.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I knock the demos because demos bore the **** out of me.

Infidel~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE the demos - sometimes more than the actual finished song, e.g. POTU (No Light), SOTOM, and (eek) Silver Springs