so, lindsey or stevie? who owns this album more?

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by dissention

I didn't mean to imply that instruments can't convey emotion, that would be absurd. But, to me, when it comes to Stevie's material, it is icing on the cake. That's not to say that some instrumentation can't move me when it comes to her songs, it can, namely "Storms" and "Goodbye Baby". But the most dominant things in her music are the lyrics and the performance. I focus more on those things than the music, mostly because a lot of the music on her solo albums is purely awful.

Agreed. But I'm sure that a lot of those songs could have been, at least had the possibility to be, beautiful if she worked on them with Lindsey. I'm just plain sure about that. All mac-albums except TITN prove that. That is the reason why I don't like her solo-albums except for the brilliant Bella Donna, some of the Wild Heart and incidently on Rock a Little and TISL. For me, it is not enough to have a well delivered performance in emotionless slick and predictible arrangements.
Especially when it is not MEANT that way.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Agreed. But I'm sure that a lot of those songs could have been, at least had the possibility to be, beautiful if she worked on them with Lindsey. I'm just plain sure about that. All mac-albums except TITN prove that. That is the reason why I don't like her solo-albums except for the brilliant Bella Donna, some of the Wild Heart and incidently on Rock a Little and TISL. For me, it is not enough to have a well delivered performance in emotionless slick and predictible arrangements.
Especially when it is not MEANT that way.

I totally agree. I like all her solo albums with the exceptions of RAL and SA, but even those albums have at least something going for them. Unfortunately, the good things are outweighed by the bad things: the slick arrangements, as you pointed out, sometimes ruin the emotion of the songs completely. The music on those albums is too sterile and slick; rather cold at times. Stevie's lyrics and the like are much better suited with warm arrangements like those on BD and the WH. Once she started going overboard with the synthesizers, a lot of the warmth in her voice and lyrics jumped the shark. But even still, I do think those albums have some good points and much of it is very heartfelt.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Enlighten me.

and me......

gerald

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by face of glass

I guess I do tend to undervalue them on the album a bit, due to the fact that Mick is pretty much doing the usual 4/4. Granted, that’s what he’s done for most of his career but with some interesting variations, up to Tusk anyway.

John is good throughout but I think it’s curious that the one of the killers is too overshadowed by the other instrumentation. It’s “Illume” I’m talking about, of course. I think he’s very important in “Smile At You” too. With the rest I don’t think it would be a huge difference if a studio player had been used. Yes, it would lose the classic Mick & John groove but would it necessarily change the conception of the songs?

Gaius, we will not come to consensus here. (Not that I'm aiming for that )
Destiny rules, RTTG, both have a unmistaken FM_signature through bass and drums. And Miranda, Come and Murrow show a very inspired and original (read: Tusk-quality) rythmsection. It's just Lindseys engineering and production that holds them back alittle. But i disagree on the fact that without Mick and John those songs would be concepted in the same way. I only think you're right if we're only talking about say you will and peacekeeper and maybe thrown down and silver girl.

gerald

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by face of glass

Mick and John are the wheels and the suspension to Lindsey’s engine, so it’s like a car. The rhythm section OOTC is like one of those fast Japanese bullet trains. Too clinical for some, maybe, but it does its job.

And for the OOTC japanese train-metaphore: I agree. But travelling fast and smooth takes away the feeling that you're underway. I like to travel and have the feeling that I'm making miles. Bumpy rides I remember, smooth transportation is just comfortable. And boring very quickly.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Imagine, if you will, if fans said that the only good parts about Lindsey's songs, are Stevie's backing vocals.

Well, that would be crazy. Surely you're not equating doing background vocals with arranging, producing and mixing a song?

Lindsey is "the chief architect of the Fleetwood Mac sound," no doubt about it, but I think it's unfair to give either him or Stevie credit for an entire half of the appeal of the others' music.

So if you're the architect of the sound, how much credit should you get if not 50 percent? 40? 25? 10? I don't know, Johnny, you seem to be wanting to have it both ways. Maybe it's not 50 percent in all cases, but it's close, wouldn't you say?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

defend stevie??? almost everyone here is saying her songs are better (which i disagree with) .

Almost everyone!!?? Time to do some math, dude.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by The Tower

"Not That Funny" is really, really, REALLY bad.... I would almost categorize it as unlistenable. That and "I Know I'm Not Wrong" are staaaanky!

Obviously, you don't get what's going on in those songs.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

"Lindsey made 'Gypsy' what it is."
"'Dreams' would be nothing if it weren't for Lindsey."
And so on and so on.

They were great songs to begin with, Johnny, to be sure, but Lindsey did make them the stellar works that they are. Dreams played by Stevie's rent-a-band is not good enough to kiss the feet of the Fleetwood Mac versions.

Besides, I think you're characterizing those of us who are bigger fans of Lindsey than Stevie with a bit of a general brush. I'm always trying to point out nuances. My issue with Stevie is that I think she became lazy about writing and editing after The Wild Heart. No need to rehash that at all. I only bring it up to point out that I love those two solo albums of hers, and they had nothing to do with Lindsey. If what you're saying were true, then I wouldn't even like them. In fact, Bella Donna was my favorite album for a long time.

My issue with Stevie is that most of her stuff after 1983 was inferior to what came before. And as much as I like a couple of the SYW tracks, most of them can't ever come close to touching Landslide, Sara or Gypsy.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

I agree on REO in loserdom

What constitutes loserdom? REO's Hi Infidelity spent 19 weeks at number 1 and sold more copies than any FM album outside of Rumours.

Does REO's music suck? That's up for debate. But I wouldn't exactly call them losers, considering the amazing success they had.

[Hawkeye]

I personally think Not That Funny and IKINW are both masterpieces, although in some ways they are painfull almost like the same song. But they are different and each are amazing in their own ways.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Lux

Good point and well made.

Be careful. They'll think you're serious. Irony is a dangerous thing.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Lux

I don't know what the point of all this is, but......
Seeing that Stevie gave her songs to Lindsey to arrange etc. wouldn't it be natural that he gets partial credit for them? That's not belittling Stevie is it, just to mention that he does deserve a fair amount of credit?

Good point. Furthermore, let's all ruminate on this for a while: In other songwriter/musician setups, Lindsey would be getting co-writing credit for a lot of these Stevie songs. Hell, he gave somebody credit for Come just for coming up with a riff. Think about that.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

What constitutes loserdom? REO's Hi Infidelity spent 19 weeks at number 1 and sold more copies than any FM album outside of Rumours.

Does REO's music suck? That's up for debate. But I wouldn't exactly call them losers, considering the amazing success they had.

I LOVE REO Speedwagon, esp. Hi Indidelity

TAKE ON THE RUN BABY - IF THAT'S THE WAY YOU WANT IT BABY . . .

[Hawkeye]

I hate REO Speedwagon but love one of their songs Riding the Storm Out.