Was Mick's Book 'Filled With Lies'?

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by David

It may not be that much of an exaggeration to say that little of the book is actually Mick's anyway. The ghostwriter, Stephen Davis, must have done most of the legwork, which would have included digging up & poring over hundreds of articles & newspaper stories, as well as reading the other books on the Mac & listening to radio interviews. Davis is just a hack, but he knows how to do what he does (recombine published pieces of a band's history into something resembling a new story). For all we know, it may have been more Davis's fault than Fleetwood's that Lindsey's contribution to the group as an arranger & producer was downplayed (which is I think the term Lindsey himself used).

is read Davis' "Hammer Of The Gods" (An awful telling of the history behind Led Zeppelin...Some facts, And "Whole lotta crap" ) to find out whatta hack he is.

[MikeB]

The only parts I found really derogatory when it came to Lindsey was the whole "Tango" incident, which has never been coroborrated. The only thing that has been said was that Stevie attacked him, no one said that Lindsey slapped her and slammed her over the hood of a car except for Mick. I mean, his told an outrageous tale: Lindsey and Stevie screaming obscenities at each other while they chase each other up and down Christine's driveway, exploding in violence on Lindsey's part. It's a rather big pill to swallow.

Actually,Stevie told that whole story herself to Rock Family Trees documentary on Fleetwood Mac in 1995.She said he followed her ''all around Christine's maze-like house'' and that he grabbed her and threw her against the car and she ''screamed horrible obscenities at him'' So I would tend to believe that whole Tango incident seeing as it came from Stevie's mouth too.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Actually,Stevie told that whole story herself to Rock Family Trees documentary on Fleetwood Mac in 1995.She said he followed her ''all around Christine's maze-like house'' and that he grabbed her and threw her against the car and she ''screamed horrible obscenities at him'' So I would tend to believe that whole Tango incident seeing as it came from Stevie's mouth too.

Stevie has also said she attacked Lindsey. So which version is accurate?

Isn't it just safer to conclude there was a confrontation, which may have gotten somewhat physical, and that they both had equal parts blame?

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

And let's not forget that the person who complained the loudest about the book was Stevie. The revelation of her affair with Mick evidently was something that she would rather have kept under wraps.

Stevie only complained about the book before it was released -- it was her very own White Wing Dove PR Blitz trying to get people to ignore it because she didn't know what Mick would put in it. She said in several articles that she told Mick something to the effect of, "If you slander me, I'll sue you, and you'll be poor again just like when you went bankrupt."

Then, when the book came out, she hardly said a word about it. In fact, didn't Mick say that Stevie liked the way their affair was portrayed in the book and that she wished he would have included more of the story, to get across that they really WERE in love (in their own way) for that little period of time? Of course, that claim is yet again from Mick's mouth, but don't you think that if Stevie really had a beef with it, that her lawyers would have been all over poor little Mick?

I actually enjoyed reading the book, but took it at its real value: a trashy rock-n-roll expose. It's supposed to be inflammatory. It's all about establishing legends and being larger than life, something the Mac has sadly lost in the past few years, despite making an awesome album and sounding incredible on tour.

I wish they all would have contributed to one big book, each writing separate sections contradicting each other. That would have been much more interesting and fun! And we'd all be discussing it and fighting about it until our deathbeds, just like our favorite band.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Actually,Stevie told that whole story herself to Rock Family Trees documentary on Fleetwood Mac in 1995.She said he followed her ''all around Christine's maze-like house'' and that he grabbed her and threw her against the car and she ''screamed horrible obscenities at him'' So I would tend to believe that whole Tango incident seeing as it came from Stevie's mouth too.

I have that on video and she never said that. She said it got ugly and that she flew off the couch and attacked him. I'm going to whip that video out again to see just exactly what she said.

[dissention]

You were right, Mike. I was thinking about the VH1 doc from the early nineties, not the BBC one. This is what Stevie said on the BBC:

"Because of that guilt I've always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac..I flew out of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him..and I did..I mean.I'm not real scary..but I can be fairly ferocious...and I grabbed him..y'know.....which almost got me killed. He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine's maze like house and down the street..and back up the street..and he threw me against the car.and I screamed horrible obscenities at him..and I thought he was going to kill me..and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me too...and I said to him.if the rest of the people in the band don't get you..my family will..my dad and my brother will kill you."

[Les]

I don’t really think of it as a pile of lies. I don't really think of it as a paragon of truth either. But ultimately, I just don't think of it was being particularly good. I didn’t find it all that entertaining either because I’d already read most of it somewhere else. The new little bits didn't redeem it for me. I expected something different, something more, I guess.

In some ways, I would suspect David’s right that the book is more Stephen Davis’ story of the band than Mick’s. Because Davis did so clearly essentially plagiarize whole passages in the book from old magazine articles, and paste them together as he saw fit, that tells me that Mick couldn’t otherwise remember enough to give him too terribly much interesting to say. But if Mick couldn’t do that, it makes it very hard to swallow when Mick is then supposedly recounting actual lines of dialogue word-for-word 5, 10, 15, 20 years after the fact.

Having said that, I would have to assume it was told in the way that Davis presumed Mick wanted to hear it told at the time, since he was ghosting Mick. The general tone of it -- who was put on a pedestal, and who was downplayed, who's stupid moments were highlighted, who's stupid moments were smoothed over much more sympathetically -- ultimately rests on Mick's frame of mind at the time the book was written. Knowing that he was broke, an addict, furious with Lindsey for leaving the band (something he hasn't fully admitted to until much more recently) leaves a lot of room to view his motives and memories with something less than wide-eyed rapture.

That very few in the band seem to embrace the book with anything like fondness leaves me with an uneasy feeling about it. That doesn't say to me that it's worthless, but it does say something. I wouldn't expect Lindsey to have any response to the book other than the one he's had. But funnily enough, I always think of John McVie’s response to the book more than anyone else's. He complained that the book made it seem like the boys were assholes and the girls could do no wrong. Coming from one who Mick describes as a best friend and a brother, that says something to me. It also tells me that John, like a lot of fans, felt that the overall slant and tone left a poor taste in his mouth and it overshadowed most other things about the book.

[Les]

Originally Posted by Nixxxed

Stevie only complained about the book before it was released -- it was her very own White Wing Dove PR Blitz trying to get people to ignore it because she didn't know what Mick would put in it.

She complained about it after its release too. At first she didn't. But during the whole Silver Springs fight with Mick, she talked about the book again and complained bitterly. Maybe the bitterness had more to do with the Silver Springs battle than the book; I don't know.

These days, she's really hands off - "I lived it, I don't need to read someone else's version."

[Villavic]

I agree that the whole "Tango" incident, which has never been coroborrated, except the part when John said to Lindsey "You better leave now..."

That was true, at least John confirmed (i heard it in a wav I downloaded once), but he meant about leaving the room, not the band. So in fact something bad happened that day.

And I guess most of the book is true. I don't think Mick meant Stevie didn't care for the band, but her solo career was huge for several years so it's logical that managers recommend their customers to go for the best finnancial option.

And I remember Mick did blame on the managers.

[Villavic]

I did find the book really enjoying, because it was the FIRST and very complete source I had from Fleetwood Mac. I read it in 1992. At that point I wasn't sure if Chris and John were married or brothers, ha ha....

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by Les

But during the whole Silver Springs fight with Mick, she talked about the book again and complained bitterly.

You mean when Stevie wanted to put SS on Timespace? I remember the fight, but not the book comments. Of course that was the Dark Ages before the Net, and there were only so many hours I could spend at a magazine rack going page-by-page looking for a few sentences about the Mac...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Nixxxed

Of course that was the Dark Ages before the Net, and there were only so many hours I could spend at a magazine rack going page-by-page looking for a few sentences about the Mac...

Did I see you there - becuase I sure used to go every weekend

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Did I see you there - becuase I sure used to go every weekend

We used to have a Hasting's store in town (before the great Wal-Mart invasion). I knew everyone in the store, and everytime there was a Mac-related musical release, I got a call on the date they ordered it, and my own copy held behind the counter when it came out. (I'm in a pretty small town, so they only got 2 or 3 copies of anything, and sometimes had to special order things like Stevie's ignored HAEWAFY single.) Then, the store got a new manager, and he didn't like me sitting on the floor in front of the mag rack all day on a Saturday. But that was okay, because I soon went to college and started my own Wild Heart adventure. I'll post a thread when I publish my own expose. And believe me, unlike Mick, I WILL BE SUED.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Isn't it just safer to conclude there was a confrontation, which may have gotten somewhat physical, and that they both had equal parts blame?

I think that's it, in a nutshell.
And if the book were written today, I imagine that episode would probably be written in a more balanced way.

Either Mick (to whatever extent he was actually involved in the writing) intentionally painted it in a rosier way to flatter the individual who was still in the band at the time (and, consequently, casting the individual who wasn't, in a more negative light), or he wasn't witness to the entire episode, and only recounted what he saw (for example, running outside in time to see Lindsey acting aggressively, but missing Stevie's own act of aggression just prior).
But either way, all parties concerned (especially Stevie and Lindsey) agree that the whole episode didn't go down exactly as Mick's book claimed it did.

In fact, I recall Lindsey (or was it Stevie?) saying in an interview, that, the first time Stevie and Lindsey saw each other again after the book was published, Stevie actually apologized to Lindsey for what was written.

As for the rest of the book... well, being that my fandom really kicked into gear in 1986/1987, when I was around 14 or 15, Mick's was the first book I found about the band (previous books were long out of print, and I didn't even know they existed), so I poured over (and damn-near memorized) the entire thing in one sitting. And loved every minute of it.

I think it IS valuable for the rich history it recounts, but you definitely have to keep in mind that it's the (sometimes foggy) recollections of ONE person in the band.

[chiliD]

"Lies"? I don't think so.

Ok, I've been watching the Beatles Anthology the last couple of weeks...in more than a few incidents, there are four (five, if you include Neil Aspinall; six if you count George Martin, too) DIFFERENT accounts & recollections of "what happened" at any particular moment depending on who's being asked. So, I just consider Mick's book "one man's view"...if any of the other members would've written a book, I would have probably read a whole different account of the same incident (or incidents).