Mick and Stevie RULE!!! - Page 7

cliffdweller · #91 03-23-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
What exactly makes him a spoiled brat? Is it his zealous protection of the integrity of the music? Is it the fact that he does that while driving a Mercedes?

If he was so zealous about the integrity of the music he wouldn't have "sold out" with Mirage and TITN, he would have quit the band after Tusk and continued on as a solo artist. He's always had to make compromises in Fleetwood Mac, so I don't know why he acts like he's the rogue outsider all the time. I think his, "I'm-the-cool-experimental-mastermind-of-the-band-and-noone-understands-me" attitude is for dramatic effect more than anything. He usually ends up caving in the end on most issues (because he realizes, if it's a band effort there must be compromise) so he's not quite the rebel he makes himself out to be after all.

And further, I couldn't care less what kind of car Lindsey drives either. It's unimportant in the grand scheme of the "integrity of the music!"

Les · #92 03-23-2004, 12:44 PM

He is the cool experimental mastermind of the band.

cliffdweller · #93 03-23-2004, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Les
He is the cool experimental mastermind of the band.

You're half right....he's one of them!

shackin'up · #94 03-23-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffdweller
If he was so zealous about the integrity of the music he wouldn't have "sold out" with Mirage and TITN, he would have quit the band after Tusk and continued on as a solo artist. He's always had to make compromises in Fleetwood Mac, so I don't know why he acts like he's the rogue outsider all the time. I think his, "I'm-the-cool-experimental-mastermind-of-the-band-and-noone-understands-me" attitude is for dramatic effect more than anything. He usually ends up caving in the end on most issues (because he realizes, if it's a band effort there must be compromise) so he's not quite the rebel he makes himself out to be after all.

And further, I couldn't care less what kind of car Lindsey drives either. It's unimportant in the grand scheme of the "integrity of the music!"

I know you all like to be cynical about this but I have to say it's very cheap to serve off someone with artistic principles (and standing for it in public) because he or she got rich by it.

It's like attacking a socialist on the fact that he won the lottery.

He caved in for Mirage and TITN, and is not proud of it. and now he caved in-again. Without that tortured artist-behaviour say you will looked like this:

WTWCT
Thrown Down
Miranda
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Silver Girl
SYHA
Destiny Rules
Bleed to love her
RTTG
say goodbye
Goodbye Baby

IF you would have liked that I pull back what I said before.

wondergirl9847 · #95 03-23-2004, 01:05 PM

No Red Rover, Murrow or Come....me no likey.

cliffdweller · #96 03-23-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shackin'up
I know you all like to be cynical about this but I have to say it's very cheap to serve off someone with artistic principles (and standing for it in public) because he or she got rich by it.

Yeah, but that's not what I'm talking about. Lindsey Buckingham is rich, and rightfully so, he's worked hard and saved---he deserves the fruits of his labor. I don't begrudge him his money, I mean, what do I care what he makes or how much money he has?

What I'm saying is, stop talking out of both sides of your mouth (not you, Lindsey) just admit you enjoy your lifestyle, make a Fleetwood Mac record that you can live with, and then go into the studio and do your solo album and purge yourself buddy. How hard is that?

And don't get me wrong, I love Lindsey, in fact, he's the reason I first got into Fleetwood Mac. I just think that sometimes, he goes a bit over the top and isn't it our job to reel him back into reality!

And don't forget, I kid because I love!!

shackin'up · #97 03-23-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
No Red Rover, Murrow or Come....me no likey.

haha....me even pukey!

shackin'up · #98 03-23-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffdweller

And don't forget, I kid because I love!!

Of course , I know that.

But my point is, If he didn't do the tortured artist stuff, they come out with spinecringing albums!!! He HAS to do that, or else we get some tensionless music. How can you say: just do a mac-album, gross your doe and go in the studio to do your art-thing?

BECAUSE of the art-thing he made those beautiful songs and arrangements.

So-although kidding, I just don't think it's a fair approach.

.....

G.

CarneVaca · #99 03-23-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffdweller
If he was so zealous about the integrity of the music he wouldn't have "sold out" with Mirage and TITN, he would have quit the band after Tusk and continued on as a solo artist.

Fleetwood Mac sold out. Lindsey didn't. The proof is in the songs.

CarneVaca · #**100** 03-23-2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffdweller
isn't it our job to reel him back into reality!

No. Our job, if you could call it that, is to listen to the music. Or not. No one has appointed the fans masters of Lindsey's reality as far as I can tell.

wondergirl9847 · #**101** 03-23-2004, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
No. Our job, if you could call it that, is to listen to the music.

I like the sound of this! How do we get paid for that because I'd make a KILLIN'?

Johnny Stew · #**102** 03-23-2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Fleetwood Mac sold out. Lindsey didn't. The proof is in the songs.

Grrr... this is the argument you and I always come back to.

How is it selling out, to want to continue making the kind of music you ENJOY making, while simultaneously wanting it to sell??
Fleetwood Mac is a pop-rock band, recording pop-rock music. They've never purported to be anything else.

Sure, they make the music likeable so that they can reach the largest audience possible... but if it's the kind of music you WANT to make, then what's the harm in wanting it to also sell well? Where's the selling out?

Selling out is listening to the Top 40 and saying, "Ok, we have to make a record that sounds JUST like whoever is #1 right now," and Fleetwood Mac has never done that.

And I don't want to sound like I'm busting Lindsey's chops, because, again, I have no problem with any of them wanting to sell as many copies of an album as possible... but, you cannot decry Fleetwood Mac for doing something that Lindsey also does.
He filmed four videos for the 'Cradle' singles, and did a heap of print and TV interviews (including, of all things, an appearance on 'Live with Regis & Kathy Lee')... so you can't tell me he wasn't trying his darnedest to get as many people as possible to buy his album.

So to me, to claim he's above all of that, just looks hypocritical.

CarneVaca · #**103** 03-23-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Grrr... this is the argument you and I always come back to.

There's no need to. Keep the context of my statement in mind. Cliffdweller said Lindsey sold out. That's plain wrong. The band sold out. And the proof is in the songs. None of Lindsey's stuff on Mirage is truly commercial. And on Tango, even Big Love was kind of an aberration on radio at the time. Nothing else really sounded like it.

Lindsey wants a wide audience for his music, it's true. But he wants it on his own terms, not on the terms of what is commercial at that particular time.

It makes perfect sense to me.

chiliD · #**104** 03-23-2004, 02:36 PM

I hold to the notion that Lindsey really isn't "cutting edge" or "groundbreaking"...he's just recycling ideas he's had for years, plus taking OLD ideas and presenting them in semi-new ways. Nothin' wrong with that, but the perception that he's so profoundly "ahead of his time" is, to me, misleading.

Take "Everybody Finds Out"...it has a fresh sound to it, in some ways, but the production fits better with the mid-80's mush of Tango In The Night.

Early on, during my extreme loathing of "Come", somebody mentioned how "Zeppelin-ish" it sounded. After seeing them play it live, I had to agree...but, Zeppelin isn't "now" or "ahead of their time"...they're yesterday's news.

I think if you try to compile the 12 most "commercial" sounding tunes on Say You Will, you WILL end up with an album that would sound like it should've been the follow-up to Tusk...it is like they're trying to roll back the clock to 1982 and say, "Ok, let's start over from after the Tusk tour...THIS is how we should've sounded then".

Johnny Stew · #**105** 03-23-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Lindsey wants a wide audience for his music, it's true. But he wants it on his own terms, not on the terms of what is commercial at that particular time.

I do understand what you're saying, but I still don't think it's an entirely accurate assessment, because FM doesn't really go by what's commercial at any given time either.

I'll remove 'Mirage' and 'Tango' from the equation, because of Lindsey's involvement... but look at 'Behind The Mask' and 'Time.'
Granted, I know you have no love lost for either of those albums, but neither of them sound exactly like the kind of music that was selling the most albums in 1990 and 1995.

Certainly they weren't entirely out of touch with the time period (Lindsey's solo stuff never is, either), but they weren't duplicates of the Top 40, top-selling music that was out then either.

By the way, if you want to look at the term "selling out" in the strictest of terms, then it really isn't entirely unreasonable to say Lindsey sold out.
If he's absolutely, fundamentally against doing something, but then gives in to sell more albums, he has sold himself out.
The documentary clearly showed us that he was against releasing 'Say You Will' as a single album, but then feared it wouldn't sell enough for him to recoup his investment... so, he made the decision to release it as a single. Therefore he gave-in to sell more albums.
Which, if one chooses to look at it honestly, is "selling out."

I reiterate, I have no problem with Lindsey or anyone else in the band, wanting to sell as many copies of their albums as possible... but, again, it's exhibiting a bit of tunnel vision to claim Lindsey is above doing something to sell more albums. Even when it means compromising his original artistic vision.